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Tears, Tantrums, and Tom Sandoval: The Traitors Reunion Special That Had Us Howling

• Niq & Jess • Episode 20

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The grand finale of The Traitors Season 3 delivered a stunning conclusion as four faithfuls—Gabby, Dylan, Ivar, and Dolores—outlasted the traitors and split the prize money. What makes this outcome so fascinating is that none of these winners were particularly strategic standouts or even fan favorites, raising questions about how they managed to succeed where more dynamic players failed.

At the heart of this season's drama was Danielle, whose performance as a traitor created one of the show's most interesting contradictions. While her fellow contestants praised her longevity and effectiveness, viewers at home cringed at her over-the-top emotional displays—literally crying and shaking on the castle floor. This disconnect highlights the strange reality of the game, where what works inside the pressure cooker environment often doesn't translate to compelling television.

The reunion special revealed surprising connections and lingering tensions. Dylan's puppy-dog admiration for Boston Rob (meeting him at the airport with an almost father-son embrace), Brittany's casual dismissal of her three-hour pre-show acquaintance with Danielle, and Tom Sandoval's unshakeable self-confidence despite being the butt of everyone's jokes all added layers to the personalities we'd been watching all season. Even host Alan Cumming couldn't maintain his composure during some of the more ridiculous moments, with producers reportedly having to tell him through his earpiece to "fix your face."

Looking ahead, the show faces a crucial decision point. With three seasons completed, The Traitors needs to evolve to maintain its momentum. Whether that means casting more strategic players, reformatting the missions, or perhaps creating a "villains" season with notoriously untrustworthy reality stars, something needs to change to recapture the magic of that first, Emmy-winning season of casting. The distinctly Scottish setting with its atmospheric castle and moody weather remains essential to the show's DNA, but within that framework, fresh approaches to gameplay could reignite the strategic fireworks that made earlier seasons so compelling.

Contact Niq & Jess

Niq:

Hi guys, welcome back to next episode with Nick and Jess, and today we're going to talk about the ending of Traitors. Yes, I'm so excited, I'm very excited, to talk about Traitors. I did not think that we would be able to discuss it and so I am caught up. I finished the season and watched the reunion and I can say I think I'm slightly pleased with the ending. None of the people who made it to the end I was rooting for, but I don't have like a hard like dislike or hatred. I thought they played a good game. You know they weren't like standout. Oh my God.

Jess:

Some of the oh my god, some of the coasted Ivar and Dolores coasted to me.

Niq:

I I do definitely think that Ivar coasted. I will agree with you, dolores. I felt like she was under scrutiny a lot, and so I I think that she had to have been playing some sort of game for her name to come up, because I feel like her name kept coming up the entire game. I think she was intimidating people, though.

Jess:

Okay, maybe coasted is the wrong word for her, but I don't know that. She's playing a good game. She just kind of never got out. You know what I mean? Because she never was right about. She wasn't getting traitors out. Her name would come up but it would be like one person stuck on her and everybody else would be focused on somebody else. She was just always wrong about whoever the traitor was. She trusted the wrong people, but she still made it to the end. Gabby and Dylan were engaged in the game.

Niq:

They were very much so. They actually like had personalities, they actually did strategize. I feel like Ivar was leaning back on the I'm an aristocrat, so I couldn't be a faithful. And Dolores was like threatening people with violence if they were traitors, and so I think that that honestly made her like seem like a faithful, because why would you like? She was like looking people in the eye, like she walked up on Dylan and was like are you faithful? Because if you vote me out at the end, I'm going to kill you. And I couldn't understand, like I'm like, do you need this money? I couldn't understand. Like I'm like do you need this money or are you just like? That's just your personality?

Jess:

I think that's just her personality. I don't even feel like she needed the money At the end. She's like well, what's most important more than important than the money is that we're all left with friends. Chick, that was not the assignment. No that you know. Hey, I'm glad that you got friends. This is a weird way to go about it.

Niq:

I'm telling you the thing about traitors and I think it's that, being cooped up together, they form these unnatural attachments to each other and they are pledging, like this loyalty and this fidelity and this lifelong intensity. And I'm like, guys, guys, it's a, it's a game. It's a game, it's a, it's a, it's a game.

Jess:

It does get intense. It does. I don't know if you can avoid the intensity though. Yeah, Like with being cooped up together. We're trying to figure all this stuff out with all the pressure on there, but yeah, they bond together like war veterans.

Niq:

They did this stuff out with all the pressure on there. But yeah, they bond together like war veterans they did. And so one of the things like we've been talking about how we have not enjoyed danielle as a traitor, and you know it, it's it hurts because I love to root for the black person, me too, and so like, and I like to root for the traitors in general. I like to root for the traitors in general. I like to root for the traitors, and so it's like you are like the Black traitor, but you are getting on my nerves. Yes, and I thought it was interesting in the reunion when they were talking about the public's perception of Danielle as a traitor versus how they felt as players in the game and how they felt like Danielle did a great job as a traitor because she lasted so long any other traitor and viewers at home were like she was awful, it was awful to watch. Do you think she got a bad edit?

Jess:

no, I don't think. I don't think she got a bad edit. The reason why I said that I don't think she got a bad edit is because all those dramatics she was doing, the crying and shaking on the floor. They said that she was crying and shaking on the floor but then when they replayed it I was like no, she was literally crying and shaking on the floor. She was. It was over the top, it was too much. You had to do that for them to put it in there.

Jess:

I don't know if this is the right difference.

Niq:

When Carolyn got voted out the way she was on that floor, I was assuming if you don't- get off that floor.

Jess:

I was full Black Mama control. I'm supposed to vote this floor. What is wrong?

Niq:

with you and she this is also something that I find hilarious. Her and something that Tom Sandoval had in common were like she would get in confessional. She's like I'm such a great strategist, I'm like such a great actress, I'm like the best ever. And Tom was also like. He was like yeah, I knew I was going to get killed because I was like a leader and I was like the best in this game. And I'm like you guys are both delusional. Like Danielle is a horrible Right. Like Danielle is a horrible actress. She's over the top.

Jess:

Yeah, Maybe 80 Soaps. That would have been her niche.

Niq:

It's not Like I feel like people believed her because they're like literally nobody can be this pathetic and act this pathetic, and it's like no somebody can, and it's so different than how Sheree no, siri, siri, siri played the game.

Jess:

Siri is still the best traitor of all times. She is still the GOAT. She played it so subtly. She steered without being heavy handed, which you know is my pet peeve in this particular game is that you don't have to be so obvious to shape and manipulate. Sari is still the best.

Niq:

She's the GOAT but also when they were saying that Danielle made it longer than any other traitor, were they just speaking of just this season? Because I'm like Sari made it all the way to the end, so they must have just been talking about this particular season?

Jess:

Yeah, maybe this particular season. Well, no, because technically Brittany outlasted her, but she had just become a traitor.

Niq:

Right, but she only survived one banishment. They were looking at banishments, mm-hmm. Okay. So I want to talk about, like, caroline getting voted off. So during that game, the chess game, which I was so happy to see, kate, even though, like they bought Kate and they bought Parvati back and they really didn't do much.

Jess:

No, they didn't. They just said but give me that all day, you know especially Kate, love, kate, Love, kate.

Niq:

Poverty can take her, leave her. She's not that interesting to me. I don't really get her headband obsession. I don't get any of that. But Kate, I love it and I'm like I can't wait till next season to see how they make it an excuse for Kate just to come to Scotland. And she's like you know what. I'm going to do it every time. But during the game is the only time I ever felt Danielle was actually did well, was smart, was strategic, because when they chose the answers for the game she did do a lot to set Carolyn up and Carolyn did not see that.

Jess:

No, she didn't, Not that she did do a good job. I up and Carolyn did not see that. No, she didn't, she did do a good job. I agree with you, in that game she did a great job.

Niq:

And then, when it came to executing the game, she really stood back and was like at this point I'm not going to worry about money, I'm going to worry about preservation. And Carolyn was so obvious during the game. She's like hold on now, hold on, let's talk about Tom again. I think we should talk about Tom. And then she kept staring them and I'm like girl, read the room. If the consensus does not agree, why do you keep going up against the consensus? And then, when she picked her own self, why would you put a spotlight on yourself, girl, ever, ever.

Jess:

Because that's something she got to work through, because she keeps bringing up how she feels like nobody listens to her.

Niq:

Okay. So did you notice, though in the reunion her talking was a lot different. It wasn't Like when she was on the show it was like, but then, like on the reunion, it was like it wasn't so, like it wasn't as over the top so my question is can you control that? Because if you can, why do you talk like that all the time?

Jess:

I don't know. It just seems like it would take a lot of energy it's not.

Niq:

She speaks like she's in the middle of a bad acid trip and then she's like I don't know why people won't listen to me because you sound like you're seeing stuff as you're talking. But the way she was in the reunion I feel like had she like been like that on the show, she would have won she admits that, like that quirkiness or, if you want to, you know, whatever that is helps her because people underestimate her yes, but it's a lot too.

Niq:

She's just a little bit too, it's a lot. That's what I'm saying. You can be quirky so that people don't take you seriously, but if you're too quirky when you have important things to say, you're immediately dismissed. It's just like the Bob the Drag Queen thing. Bob the Drag Queen, he was a great leader, but he was just too much. If he had pulled back a little, he would have been so much more successful on the show Danielle, yes, she was like pretty successful, but she probably could have went to the end if she would have just calmed down some.

Jess:

It's calm down and if she had gotten, she was loyal to the wrong people. That's the thing that frustrates me even more than her over. I could deal with the overacting, because they really weren't. I guess they really weren't seeing how bad it was. But if I can deal with the overacting, what bothered me is her loyalty to Dylan and Brittany was her downfall. If she had gotten rid of them two earlier, she would have made it to the end of the game.

Niq:

But then, who should have she been loyal to in place of Dylan and Brittany?

Jess:

I mean, she just needs to be like she was still friends with everyone else.

Niq:

I think in her mind she was going to take them to the end with her because they were going to trust her no matter what. So who would have been those two people?

Jess:

Dolores. Dolores trusted her to the end. Dolores trusted her to the end. I don't know. Ivar definitely did not. Ivar did not. Ivar didn't, gabby didn't. I also would have got rid of Gabby earlier if it was me, if I had my drivers in this season. Dolores and Tom Sandoval would have went with me to the end, because they're never going to figure it out.

Niq:

But they also did not trust each other.

Jess:

That's true. I just need you both to trust me.

Niq:

Here's the thing Everybody knew that she was going to pick Brittany to be her traitor, which I even Brittany was like. That's so obvious, which, of course, I think is a mistake If she wanted to pick another woman because because she felt like you know, they, they, they felt like it was a woman traitor. So, just in case, let's give them somebody. She should have picked Gabby, she should have picked Gabby, and then she should have killed Dylan.

Jess:

She definitely should have killed Dylan. She would have never killed Dylan, and I think that's the biggest part of her downfall Because I don't know, I just saw from the beginning I'm like Dylan is not going to be as loyal to you as you are to him. I think, Danielle, to me, her biggest downfall is she's loyal to people that are not loyal to her and she can't see it that they're not going to be loyal to her, but it's obvious to me.

Niq:

Now, do you feel like Brittany was this loyal to her? Because, if we're honest, when Brittany got pulled in, danielle had already she was in a terrible spot. I feel like it. I honestly feel like she was gonna go home, regardless of who she picked. Picking Brittany did not help her, but Brittany was trying. If you think about it like Brittany was, she was PR-ing for her.

Jess:

Brittany didn't have to vote for her, like she still would've went home. You didn't have to vote for her. She still would have went home. You didn't have to vote for her. I would have sat there at that round table for as long as we got to go. I'm not going to flip on you, but one I feel like Dylan and Brittany should have gotten rid of much earlier in the season. If Danielle was thinking strategically, I agree, she for some reason decided she was going to be loyal to these two people and was determined to be loyal to them, but I'm like it's just not going to be reciprocated. I know it's not going to be reciprocated. Dolores would have went with her to the end. I feel like there's other people I'm trying to think of that would have, but those two were not the two and she just got so fixated on them.

Niq:

But I want to talk about the roundtable once more, where Brittany voted for Danielle. Ok, so at this point Danielle is in pretty hot water and I, if you look at it from Brittany's perspective, she knows that Danielle is a traitor and I really think if she would not have voted for her, it would have put even more suspicion on her. I just think I, I I really think so, because everybody, I think I mean at that point people knew danielle was a traitor and britney had already spent the day walking and doing heavy PR for Danielle. She was putting in the work and I honestly, for a second, thought they were going to pull it off. I really thought they were going to put it off. For a second. I thought they were going to pull a switcheroo and get Ivar out, because I'm like, oh, I thought they were going to pull it out in the fourth hour. And so I can understand Danielle being upset that Brittany voted for her because she's like dang. But I think at that, in that moment, that was what was best for Brittany's game.

Niq:

Now, did Brittany get voted out immediately? She did, but even if Brittany was not a traitor, she was going to get voted out because they were. I feel like they were trying to get rid of gamers because they really didn't trust them. Towards the end, I don't think I, honestly, it would be really hard for a gamer to get all the way down to the end because they they feel like the, the regular reality stars don't fully, fully, fully trust the gamers. Okay, I want to talk about Boston Rob. He's somebody I do not enjoy.

Jess:

I did enjoy him slightly more in the reunion, well, I enjoyed him slightly more in Traitors and the reunion than I did in Survivor. I could not stand him in Survivor and I still will never in life ever trust him Like. I definitely agree with the. If you see Boston Rob walk through the door, you vote him out immediately. I don't care what that man. That man would sell his mama for a two piece and a biscuit, like why? Why are we even playing with this? Yeah, I saw. I didn't. I never understood what other people saw in Boston Rob as to keep him around because it is so obvious he has no loyalties to anyone but himself. But what I did see from him in the reunion, oh, he can be charming when he wants to be.

Niq:

Yes, but he was also just being very genuine in the sense that he was. You said what, how he gets you? In the sense that he was being very genuine. He sense that he was. You said what, how he gets you? Well, in the sense that he was like being very genuine. He was like, well, yes, I was going to murder everybody. Yes, I was going to sell everybody out. Yes, I always like find a rookie and make and put them by my side and take them to the end. And Dylan was like. I just was watching Dylan no deal Island on the plane and I saw him do that and I still came and fell for it and I'm like man, is he like the Pied Piper or something? Because, yes, dylan was so deeply in love with Austin Robb. It was weird, did you see that he picked him up from the airport, yes, yes, yes, and then hugged him like he was his long lost daddy.

Jess:

Daddy, that was a very dad. I miss you.

Niq:

It was like dad returning home from the military, Surprising me Cool type hug. It was Like I was just like I.

Jess:

Even though I appreciated his candidness and I agree he was more charming on the reunion, I still it don't matter if I see Boston Rob, if I see Wes, if I see Tony, yes, that's it, y'all going in that order.

Niq:

I agree, like I think it's to the advantage of the reality TV stars to get rid of the gamers, like to band together to get rid of the gamers because they do have a different mindset, they do have a different code of ethics and they are good at that. But they're good at see, they're good at the challenges and stuff. So they help to run up the pot and so that's one of the advantages of keeping them. But they are literally building that money for them.

Jess:

But I'm like Dylan. Look like he's strong. You know what I mean. Like most of these people are in good shape. You can do the challenges.

Niq:

When I tell you that Tom Sandoval takes himself so seriously and no one else does.

Jess:

But I love it and people not taking him seriously does not stop him from taking himself so seriously and it makes me love him even more. I don't know what the heck he did to all these girls in previous things because I didn't watch him in other shows, but I'm like this is the Tom Sandoval. I know I enjoy him.

Niq:

I didn't watch Vanderpump Rules but I'm assuming he cheated on his girlfriend and it must have been really devastating His girlfriend and everybody's girlfriend.

Jess:

That's what it sounded like.

Niq:

I'm like I don't. I'm so, so close, so close to going to finding out what happened, because they, the way that they have a, they have like a deep vendetta against you know, any of y'all one out one, and I do want to admit something that I did not realize until watching it again that Chrishell and Gabby were two different people.

Jess:

Chrishell is theby were two different people. Chrishell is the one who got the blood vended against him and she couldn't even play. She could not even play because she's just like okay, this happened, this happened, this happened. Tom Sandoval, I'm like girl. Did you want this money or not?

Niq:

so, while we're admitting to things, I would like to admit that, uh, tom Sandoval and Sam were the same person who I forgot, sam.

Niq:

Sam was the one who was married to Britney Spears and I remembered in the beginning of the show that he, he, was married to Britney Spears. And I remembered in the beginning of the show that he was married to Britney Spears but then I literally, somehow, watching the show, forgot he existed. And then at the reunion he was sitting there and then I was like, oh wait a minute, there's two guys there's two Tom Sandoval's.

Jess:

I still don't remember him. I do not remember him at all. Did he go first?

Niq:

No, he actually lasted pretty good and was starting to figure things out. I think when I was like, oh man, Tom is having some good days, that was Sam.

Jess:

No, I wasn't, Because on the reunion show I was like Harpo. Who this man? Where are you on here? I don't even remember you.

Niq:

Right and I was like, oh, wait a minute, wait a minute. I was like I think Tom is figuring some stuff out. Yeah, that was Sam actually making good guesses, like some of those people.

Jess:

So we must have both been doing that. We have blended Sam and Tom Sandoval into one person and we like that person yes, we do, I enjoy him.

Niq:

He has never cheated on me or any of my friends, so I feel free to enjoy him me too.

Jess:

he was so funny Without trying to be funny, it was just so much entertainment. And then watching Alan Cumming laugh at Tom Sandoval is a whole nother thing.

Niq:

Here's the doll episode Once again, when they showed the clip at the reunion and the way that you can see Alan laughing for real laughing for real laughing Like that is the funny. And I wonder when Tom watched that episode, what did he see?

Jess:

and hear Nothing shakes his confidence. Nothing, Absolutely nothing. What is his name? Alan Cumming did an interview. I haven't seen the whole interview, but the little clip that I saw was him saying that there would be times where he would just hear in his earpiece fix your face.

Niq:

I saw that too. The funny thing is he was talking about the choices that people were making as he's walking around and I knew that they were like revealing in a particular way, like they knew what the votes were and were revealing them in a particular way. But I just think that it's hilarious that Alan Cummings is like these people are idiots, like come on now, like you don't see what's going on. I think that that is hilarious. So the show has had three seasons. The first season was a mix between reality and regulars, and then two and three were all like reality TV people. If there is a season four, do you think they should go back to all regular people?

Jess:

I don't know. I actually want what you suggested last time. I want two separate shows.

Jess:

I want celebrity traders and regular people traders. I want two separate shows Because I'm really enjoying the UK version of Traders with all regular people. It is good for different reasons. Yeah, they come about their guesses in different ways and even their strategic moves they make in different ways, but it's really interesting and so I do want to see regular people do this. But the mix they cannot handle the cutthroatness that reality stars are capable of. But I need that because all the pomp and circumstance, the drama, the outfits adds to the US and I still I need all of that to exist.

Niq:

I, yes, but I think that season four they need to do something to revamp things though. Ok, so I don't, I'm trying to. That's why I said, well, maybe they need to do a season of regular folks. You know also like, did you feel like this? Like this season, the final mission was too easy them dropping the thing in the ring of fire.

Niq:

Yes, it seemed relatively easy. If you think about the last, the final missions are usually overly convoluted. This one was like they were jogging through the woods and then they hopped in some cars and then they had to swing from a helicopter. I'm like it feels a little easy. You know, like it to me I trader has always had like their missions have always been like mentally and physically, like on the tougher end.

Niq:

I feel like, compared to a lot of like shows like that I've seen currently yeah, I haven't been watching like survivor and big brother and stuff like that for years, but I, when I watched like the first season of traders and then I was watching like the UK versions and stuff like that, I'm like, oh, these, these missions are serious. Like you got to carry. They're like, oh, you want to carry a stone statue up a hill through a river, like you know what I'm saying. Like it's really like tough. But I'm like this, that last mission, I'm like I just didn't feel like they put their heart in it. You let it get tight. I think that they are like I'm like y'all, nothing blew up, like I'm just like they can, they can do a little, they can do a little better. I. I did enjoy the backwards doll mission. You know I enjoyed most of the missions, like that bug wedding mission. It was great TV to watch, great TV. Thank you, thankful that I was not there.

Jess:

And the outfits. That's what the reality TV stars you're going to get the outfits too, and I love them, I love them. I'm still not over MJ's whole wardrobe from last season, but yeah, I enjoyed the outfits for people too. The bug wedding, I think. Sierra thinks she married to Boston Rob for real, I'm not sure.

Niq:

I feel like Ellen put that in her head, though, although she was like she's like Boston, rob being daddy, she's like, that's crazy.

Jess:

You know.

Niq:

But also it seems like all of them really keep up together. Maybe they really are bonded for life, because everyone's like, yeah, I was just with them, I was just talking to them on the phone. I'm like really.

Jess:

Yeah.

Niq:

I'm like, really, yeah, I'm like I've been. I just want them to. First season got that, get housewives that I know Because, like I said, I want them to bring housewives on the show that I actually know, like this last season I didn't know any of those women. I didn't know any of those housewives either. Ion I didn't know Ion and not because I watched her show, but she has a lot of like. I feel like they have a lot of clips on TikTok because she has like a lot of one liners which she said that she is really funny, and I'm like, oh yeah, I can see that because I've seen your clips on TikTok and I don't know anybody else that's on your show yeah, no, she seems like she's really funny.

Jess:

so, yeah, I have seen her before. Else, that's on your show. Yeah, no, she seems like she's really funny. Yeah, I have seen her before. But that's not their fault, that's our fault. We stopped watching Housewives years ago. We were like they would have to get Nene and I don't think Nene coming out of retirement for nobody.

Niq:

Well, but they were like Dorinda's. Like Bob said, he doesn't know who I am and I'm like ma'am for a million dollars. I could not tell you which Housewife franchise you were even on. No, I also don't know you Like. I don't you know. She didn't say that personally, she did.

Jess:

He also did not have to say it, but like he didn't, but I don't know who you are either, but I don't know who you are either. I don't know who you are because I stopped watching Housewives like 10 years ago, so like I'm not going to, you know what I mean. I'm like hey, like realistically for them to get Housewives, we know. Do you know how far back they got to go?

Niq:

You know what the funny thing is Like, tangentially, I still know who's on Housewives of Atlanta. I know, because it's Nene and Portia, right, yeah, but I think they're bringing a lot of people back because you remember they had Kim Fields on there, they had Eva the Diva on there, I know.

Jess:

I love Kim Fields. I didn't know she was on there.

Niq:

Yeah, but I think she only lasted one season because she really wasn't trying to interact they. They were like she would come and shoot like 15 minutes and be like, okay, I'm going home. So, yes, no, I don't keep up.

Jess:

So like that's not really their fault. They like. I feel like we lost touch with that franchise we did.

Niq:

Maybe the people that they're bringing on. It's not that I don't know them, that they're not interesting, because I had never heard of Kate before she was on. Like, yeah, I didn't know Kate either, but I love Kate. She was on a show called Below Deck. I don't even know what that is, girl. I don't know, is that a spinoff of Vanderpump? I have no idea. But but guess what? At the end of that season, I didn't even like Kate.

Jess:

I didn't like her either at the beginning, but by the end of the season I really enjoyed Kate. It's more so than we actually know them, because I just feel like that's an unrealistic ask for people, but just ones with personalities that are interesting.

Niq:

I think that's true Because, honestly, dorinda Robin, I Dorinda Robin, I liked Doris. I didn't like Robin. I didn't feel like she had a personality, like I don't, did Robin go early? See, you don't even remember, and I don't either.

Jess:

No, because I like okay. So, robin, that's not true. I am familiar with her too. What show is she on, ma'am? You know? I don't know, but I've seen her in the guys of the world, I don't know. So I feel like she didn't get her. I feel like they got rid of her early for some reason, because I feel like she does have a personality and she doesn't play. But it's almost like one of those things. She just said something very matter of fact and they tried to make. I don't even know if Aravena's Black, I think she's Black but they tried to angry Black woman her, and she literally just said something, just straight, and he was like well, why are you getting so defensive? And they went along that line with her. So I really feel like they kind of pushed her out before she got a chance to really get warmed up.

Niq:

If she's a housewife, she's got to be on Potomac, because Potomac is they all kind of beige, you know. So I'm thinking maybe she should be on Potomac I don't, because I can't remember who did it.

Jess:

It was a white man and I just remember the way he was talking to her did not fit the way that she was actually talking. She has a commanding voice, but she was not angry, she was not upset, she was just like no, I disagree with you. Why are you getting so defensive?

Niq:

And I'm just like sir, I literally don't remember that, because I don't remember her. I don't remember her having contributing to the entertainment of the season. Honestly, none of the housewives this season did. Yeah, dolores made it to the end, but I don't feel like she was particularly like entertaining.

Jess:

No, but my point like she was, robin was very like into the investigating, trying to figure out who the traitors were, so like the wheels were turning with her and they to me. Like I said, angry black women to her and use that as an excuse to get her out. But she does. I think she does have the potential to go there and be entertaining and she'll go toe-to-toe with anyone. I just don't feel like she got her the chance.

Niq:

That's my point. What I found was interesting was, at the reunion, how many people I forgot were ever on the show.

Jess:

Girl.

Niq:

Like there was.

Jess:

Was that second season? Which season, robin? She wasn't on this season, she was on second season.

Niq:

No, she was. She was on this season, she was Second season was Phaedra and Sheree. Okay, there might have been another housewife. Oh yeah, and the one that used to date Michael Jordan's son, scottie Pippen's ex-wife, larsa. There it is, I got there eventually.

Jess:

She could have gone as soon as possible. I would have been fine with that.

Niq:

But at least I knew who she was and knew stuff about her. I don't know her by face.

Jess:

I know her because people were referencing her to Scottie Pippen and Michael Jordan, which I also don't recognize, but I wasn't sad when either of them left.

Niq:

I wasn't sad, but at least I knew who she was and I had seen her. I think when she was on, maybe, real Housewives of Miami maybe has there been a Real Housewives of Chicago. I think it was Real Housewives. I don't think so. I think she was on Real Housewives of Miami when she was still married to Scottie Pippen.

Jess:

I don't know. Now I think we're making up Real Housewives.

Niq:

No, there was a Miami one. I think she was on the Miami one. I knew who Larsa was. These women. When Dorinda said that she called Andy and cried because she got voted out, I'm like, well, how well do you know him? I really don't know who she is it does seem like.

Jess:

Andy, knowing the housewives really well, I think they have real relationships genuine friendships.

Niq:

I think that he may be the number one Housewives fan. Right, right, I think Andy is the homie for them. I really think so. I was like that's really cute. You got Andy's phone number. Oh, so you really are like a Housewife. I don't know who she is, I just don't. I don't. But okay's, let's figure out what they can do to make next season like interesting and different. What did you think about the seer power? I didn't like it. I didn't either.

Jess:

I did not like it. It felt unnecessary. Yeah, it didn't either, I did not like it.

Niq:

It felt unnecessary. Yeah, it didn't help anything. It really didn't bring any drama. It was so it was bought out so far At the end. I think if they wanted to do that, it should have been at the midway point, when there were more people, and I also, I don't know, I don't know the senior thing did not hit and I understand, like I think the senior is a werewolf. I think it's an actual part of werewolf. I think this show, I mean the game Werewolf, but I just don't think that it was executed well. I don't think it was needed in the season. I don't think it changed anything.

Jess:

No, I also feel like and I don't know if this is part of making the show better, but I don't like to keep adding traitors. You know what I mean, even though I always go for the traders and I want the traders to win. But at some point I'm like, well, if they didn't get out three traders and you still added people, you know.

Niq:

Well, I mean, I think that's just part of the game, Like there has to be a certain amount of traders up until a certain point.

Jess:

But I feel like that's not fair to the faithfuls, because if their goal is to get the traitors out and then, when you get a significant amount of them out, you add somebody back in, then I don't feel like that's fair to them.

Niq:

Who said the game was fair for the faithful.

Jess:

I mean, it's already set up against the faithful, so do you need to make it even more set up against you know what I mean.

Niq:

Yes, because let's say they vote like we start the game with three traitors. Let's say, by some miraculous situation they vote out three traitors at the beginning. What are we going to do for the rest of the season? The game's over.

Jess:

They won. That's supposed to be the goal.

Niq:

This is still a TV show. They got episodes that have to happen.

Jess:

When they added Brittany in that was what the name had gone through so many rounds like she could have finished that out but like okay, so think about this like there were times when they could have added a traitor, and I think they didn't.

Niq:

But you have to have so, and that's why, when he I think that's why at that point he was like no, you have to add a traitor because you have to have a certain amount in order for the show to continue. I don't know, I just feel like that's unfair, like I feel like if they would have added a traitor earlier, they wouldn't have had to do the ultimatum at the end with Brittany. Or even if Carolyn had not gotten voted out, they wouldn't have had to bring Brittany in. But you have to have a certain amount of traitors, or there, literally, is not a show.

Jess:

But if they're going to get out traitors and they've gotten them all out, but you're just going to add more, there's no way for them to win. Almost Literally four fs won this season. How many times are you going to add more traders in?

Niq:

but they are aware that traders can be recruited. So then you have like the name of the game is figure it out, so them being able to recruit traders, like it adds to the game.

Jess:

I feel like at a certain point that needs to stop, because remember Alan- told her hey, at this point, traitors, it adds to the game, I feel like at a certain point that needs to stop At a certain point in the game.

Niq:

It does because, remember, alan told her hey, at this point this is the last time that someone can be added. But yeah, I think it adds more drama to the end because typically four faithfuls winning doesn't typically roll like that. And I was very surprised because I definitely thought that ivar and dolores were going to get banished in the circle of truth or ring of fire, whatever it's called, like I. I really thought that they were going to bounce ivar and dolores because they both had questions about all of them, and then Danielle or Brittany no, Brittany at the end really like had Dylan looking bad, you know.

Jess:

So I was very surprised that all four of them I don't understand what magic or power Dylan has over them people, because, while I know he was a faithful the whole time, still she made a good case she did. I know he was a faithful the whole time.

Niq:

Still, she made a good case she did. There was a certain amount of infantilizing going on. Yes, do you remember when Mark Zuckerberg spoke in front of Congress and they were like, oh, talking about him, he was just this young man and he was like 35 and a father like you know what I mean? And they were talking about him as if he was 16, 17, 18 years old. So like he was being infantilized and that's why like people were like, oh no, it can't be him, which is why danielle should have, danielle should have gotten him, or Gabby, and then, whichever one she did not choose as a traitor, she should have killed the other one, because they were both like sweet American pie.

Jess:

yeah, well, dylan had already turned down being a traitor earlier, so I feel like Dylan needed to die.

Niq:

I mean I wouldn't I sure, but in that ultimatum do you think he would have chosen to die? I mean I wouldn't Sure, but in that ultimatum do you think he would have chosen to die? If she would have did the ultimatum, I don't care, I just he need to go. I would have. Also, I would have chosen Gabby over Dylan, but you know it should have never been Brittany.

Niq:

No, it should never have been Brittany like you didn't have a lick back with Brittany. I feel like she was trying to be a producer and she was trying to create, like the storyline of them getting back together and being friends again, and like she lost sight of the game she was actually playing. I'm like you're not the producer, sweetie. They don't need you to help create storylines. You are supposed to be trying to win this game and you're doing everything else everything else okay.

Jess:

So then going to the reunion. Brittany clearly which, again before she even said this, this is obvious to me Brittany does not feel as close to you as you feel to her.

Niq:

Brittany said in the game.

Jess:

she was like we spent three hours together before Reindeer Games and I'm like, and you acting like this is your best friend.

Niq:

You know, it's something like I said, like something about being like on TV together, Like these people bond, have like these deep bonds that I just don't feel like are based In reality and I just don't understand.

Jess:

But it's like some of them understand that and some of them don't. And Danielle's a gamer.

Niq:

She is, she is, but she's not the gamer that she thinks that she is. Once again, she's sitting in Confessionals, I think, 20 steps ahead, and I'm a strategist and, oh my god, I'm an award winning actress. The way I'm playing these people. She's not, though she's, she's not. They are like they. They are not voting for her and they can't see her because they just think so little of her because she's around their castle, acting dumb and acting crazy, like rolling around on the floor screaming and crying, and they're like this woman is a mental patient, she can't possibly be a traitor. The same way, they're like carol carolyn acts like she's on shrooms. She could never be a traitor. You know what I'm saying, and so in yes, did it work for danielle and it didn work for Carolyn? To a certain point it did. But acting like that is never going to get you the win, which is what you want. You want the win, and acting like a nut is not going to get you the win. Yeah.

Jess:

I mean it worked for Gabby as a faithful, but it's not going to work for you as a traitor but Gabby doesn't act a nut.

Niq:

She's airheaded, she's legally blonde, she's smart, but she has that airheaded affect, but she does never come across as crazy.

Jess:

No, she didn't.

Niq:

Carolyn and Danielle both came across as having mental health issues and that's the difference. Like when I saw I'm still mad. Every time I think about Danielle laying on like on that floor.

Jess:

I think she's like I'm not sticking on that floor, she can't even watch it At the reunion, whenever we played it she was like I'm like. Yes, it was hard for us too.

Niq:

Oh, I get so angry Like, come on, man, Like you're doing too much, entirely too much.

Niq:

I'm also laughing at the fact that Brittany was like, yeah, dolores looked at me and then looked at Danielle and Dolores was like you definitely made that up and then like it was on the camera. And Bob is like you saw her looking somewhere. You don't know where she was looking. She could have been looking anywhere, because Dolores did not even vote for Danielle. She sure didn't when Brittany. I think Brittany just wanted to vote for Danielle. She sure didn't when Brittany.

Jess:

I think Brittany just wanted to vote for Danielle. She didn't, and that's one of the excuses that she be making. I'm like nobody believes it, like I don't believe any of that, that it was hard for you, that it was any of that stuff. I'm like you can keep that. You can keep that for me. I knew from day one if you had the opportunity, you were going to betray Danielle again. I don't know how Danielle didn't know that.

Niq:

Because Danielle was too busy trying to be a producer and trying to produce a storyline and instead of playing the game, she was trying to be an actress.

Jess:

Give her her soap opera. That's what she wanted to do.

Niq:

So Give her her soap opera. That's what she wanted to do. So I I've watched the, I've watched the whole season and although there were some breakout moments, yeah, this season was not as good.

Jess:

No, it's hard to top the first season of any show Like this, but like that, first season is still the best.

Niq:

Absolutely, but second season was still very good.

Jess:

It was good. You know I don't care for the winners of the second season, but the show was good.

Niq:

It was good. I like it. I had clear villains and I had clear like people that I could root for and this season it was very, was it? I don't know if it was a casting thing.

Jess:

Was it just not well casted, I guess? I guess I think I just wasn't. I was expecting more from certain people, Like I was expecting Bob the Drag Queen to last longer than they did. I was expecting more from Danielle, but I didn't really see her in her shows that she was on.

Niq:

I didn't see her either, but she came in talking about how she was one of the best to ever do it, and I feel like Derek said the same thing about her. She has this reputation. That's very good. Maybe she just didn't like the game. Same thing about her, like she has this reputation, that's very good. Maybe she just didn't like the game.

Jess:

This was not her game. Maybe she did better in Big Brother. See, I think, like the people that I wanted to root for, I expected more and I did not get that. Yeah, and then the other people. There was so few people to root for.

Niq:

You know what? I think that they should do a villains season. I think that they should fill the house with some of the worst reality TV people they can find Like the least trustful, the slimiest. Like literally, if we're going to get in the muck in the, if we're gonna get in the muck in the mud, let's get in the muck in the mud. You know what I'm saying? Like I, I think we, they have to do something. Yeah, because the show is starting to get stale and the other countries are not getting stale as fast. No, they're not. No, they're not. So I think that they really need who do I want to see? I want to see Tiffany Pollard Omarosa. Yes, I do. I'm trying to think who else is like the worst, but it makes good TV.

Niq:

Housewives you know Kim Zolzie. She's a terrible person and she is in desperate need of money. She is in desperate need of money. She is in desperate need of money.

Jess:

So yeah, put Kim on there. I'm joking, we'll throw it out there.

Niq:

Kim Solzhenitsyn, though.

Jess:

That would make for good TV though I just don't feel like Nene would do it.

Niq:

I want to see. Oh, what's the one of the Jersey house? Is her name Teresa, or which one is? Like she either went to prison or her and her husband went to prison. Like I want to see one of them. Like I want to. Yeah, I want to see. I want to see one of them like I want to. I want to see the worst of the worst, because I want. What do you do in the house? How do you form alliances when you know you can't trust anyone? Is he still alive? That was like the first Survivor winner, I think. I don't know if he's still alive. That's what I'm saying Go through, go through Survivor Like. Go and find, like the people who have broken people's hearts and backstabbed people.

Jess:

You know.

Niq:

That's like like put someone in the house where everybody knows that like you can't trust anybody, you can't trust anybody, and then let's see how that goes.

Jess:

That would be interesting. Mm-hmm, let's see how that goes. That would be interesting. So just you know, a house full of Boston.

Niq:

Rob's right and that seer thing. Let's never see that again, unless they're going to do it differently. I don't know. I just don't think it was needed. I don't think it added anything twist at all. I want to see the missions go up a notch, not down. That last mission was really bland compared to the past. I want to see them do some stuff, because you know who has good missions. I don't know if you've ever watched this show, the Mole. The Mole has some good missions.

Niq:

I don't know if you've ever watched this show like the Mole. The Mole has some good missions, but I will check it out. It's good. It's good. I've watched a few seasons of that. So they need to look at the Mole and get some mission ideas. I want to see them doing some stuff, because the fact that the missions have always been way tougher than you would expect I really really like that. And they got to bring Kate like the missions have always been like way tougher than you would expect I really really like that.

Niq:

Oh, and they gotta bring kate back kate is your favorite person, yes, and even though she I don't consider her a villain, I feel like she could hold her own in a house full of villains she can hold her own anywhere.

Jess:

She just she has a big. It's enjoyable. I want more people like that.

Niq:

Yes, yes, I want to see tougher missions. I want to see a house full of villains. I don't know. I think House of Villains is a different show. I've never seen it, but I'm pretty sure House of Villains is another show. But I don pretty sure House of Villains is another show, but I don't really know what the premise is. I also think that they need to find a way to penalize people for voting out people who they know are faithful but they just don't like. Why? Because I just think that it changes the nature of the game and it's like you're not really looking for faithfuls. You're trying to find a group that you can make it to the end with you know, I don't know about that.

Jess:

I don't agree with that, because there's a few people who I'm like it does not matter, and I feel like there are times in the game where it doesn't matter whether you are a traitor or faith or not. You just need to. I feel like that with Wes. I feel like Wes is making people uncomfortable While we're talking about a house full of villains. I don't want to feel unsafe. Go, you need to go. You know what I mean. And then there was, oh goodness, I don't even mind, I've been a US season, but I feel like they had another situation like that where this person is just what were they saying? They were like they're bad faithful, so like, yes, I've heard the bad faithful.

Jess:

Because I'm like it does get to a point where it's like I don't care if you're a villain or not. You're either messing up the missions or you're not helping. You know what I mean Significantly Like it's like, even though, as much as we love Kate, kate stopped playing for like three games, three missions. She did. If you vote that person out because they're bad faithful, I'm fine with that too.

Niq:

I wish that there was some kind of way I feel like the clickiness.

Jess:

But I think that's the interesting thing. I was talking about this earlier today. You get to see, in all these games, really, people's biases come out so strong. Oh, it does, they come out so strong. That's Like you get to see, in all these games, really, people's biases come out so strong. Oh, it does they come out so strong. That's how, like you know, you get to where it's like okay, all the Black women are not angry. You know they're not giving you attitude, they're talking to you normal and you're still putting all this other stuff on them. People form their groups. They vote people out based on whether or not they like them. Okay, so I'm watching season two Traders in the UK and there's the redheaded lady who cannot stand.

Jess:

Anthony. Anthony is faithful. He's so faithful. I'm like you, just don't like him. All the evidence that you're giving is you don't like his personality. It has nothing to do with him being a traitor.

Niq:

I feel like that's how it was with Tom Sandoval Chrishell and a lot of the Bambis. They didn't really think that he was a traitor, but they just did not like him.

Jess:

So much so it messed up their own game. That's still interesting, though.

Niq:

Okay, maybe not a penalty, but I do feel they we need to do some revamping. We need to, we need to do some something to raise the stakes. I don't know if we need to maybe offer more money I would love more money um, or if we like, maybe limit the number of people who can get to the end, and maybe it could be no more than three people. I feel like it was too many people at the end, so maybe, I don't know, it didn't bother me.

Jess:

The four people at the end didn't bother me because it and that's maybe just a little leftover from last season I was so pissed off at Trishel and I don't know the guy that she was with who kicked off MJ for no reason.

Niq:

I'm going to say Craig, but I don't think his name is Craig.

Jess:

We'll call him Craig now Trishel and Craig got on my nerves and I'm like that mess was just trifling.

Niq:

The reason why it got on your nerves and the reason why MJ is so mad, because they, 100% without a shadow of a doubt, knew that MJ was a faithful and they voted her out just to have the money to split between the two of them.

Jess:

And she's brown, and that felt very targeted well, and it always does with Trishel and it always will. You know, I was mad. I already didn't care for her, like I think I did see whatever show Trishel was on, but it's been so many years she was in the real world back in the day when we used to watch the real world so I'm like I'm vaguely familiar with her.

Jess:

I'm sure I watched whatever she was on in detail, but it's just been a long time and I'm like I got that feeling from her the first time I saw this chick on TV. And so then I don't like the way she got Peppermint out, because I feel like she does. What a lot of us deal with at work is that she sets up a situation with a black woman and then plays the victim, and that's what she did with Peppermint and that pissed me off so much. And so then to see you do this again at the end with MJ right.

Niq:

I 100% felt like Peppermint I'm saying, but still a personal comment I really feel honestly, like I really feel like Peppermint being voted off was people's biases showing. Like I really 100% felt like she. They voted for her because she was more different than them actually thinking that she was a traitor. Now did she come out and say I'm a traitor? She did, and I'm sorry.

Jess:

I feel like a lot of this was she was a Black woman, confident, and that's what pissed off Trishel because she was just talking about oh, if I'm going to kill you, anything is going to be with looks. And then Trishel, because she was just talking about oh, if I'm going to kill you, anything is going to be with looks. And then Trishel immediately got triggered and then immediately set up a situation to get her out, intentionally, and everybody else went along with it, because you know that's what they do.

Niq:

Right, they jump on that, but it's so easy because I feel like other people get the benefit of the doubt. You know what I mean.

Jess:

But she was never going to be given the benefit of the doubt yeah, so yeah, and then she slipped up, but I'm like I can still see she was flustered but that's what I'm saying.

Niq:

If somebody else would have said that and they would have been like, oh my god, I'm flustered like they would have been given the benefit of the doubt, because do you remember, like I think it was season one when Kate and somebody were writing down who they thought were traitors, and then they dropped the list you know what I'm saying and like she was able to explain herself, like she was given the benefit of the doubt. You know, like, and so I really like Peppermint was never gonna, she was never gonna get the benefit of the doubt. So, like I'm like, at the endint was never going to, she was never going to get the benefit of the doubt. Yeah, so, yeah, I can't.

Jess:

So, like I'm like at the end with the season was enjoyable to watch, but Watching um to show when Was never going to be fun, and why. You know how many times you go. Send one person Sensitivity training, you know like they not gonna get more Sensitive, so um, okay, so what do you Think they could do next season?

Niq:

What would you like to see?

Jess:

I would like to see yeah, a lot of the same things Bigger, more interested personalities. I would like to see tougher missions as well. Yeah, the seer thing needs to die. I'm not, I don't know that this is something that they can rule, but I would like to see the traitors stick together longer.

Niq:

This season I honestly blame. I would like to blame Boston Rob. I've never seen traitors fall apart so fast, but I feel like Boston Rob bought that culture in and they did not know how to recover from it.

Jess:

I don't even know, and this pains me to say, I don't know if I even blame Boss and Rob, and that's hard for me to say out my mouth. But like one, like I don't, I would have responded to what Bob the Drag Queen said the same way, because there was no need for him to say that.

Niq:

But Bob the Drag Queen, said the same way because there was no need for him to say that. Everybody was saying how at the reunion, how it wasn't as impactful.

Jess:

And I don't think that he meant it the way it came across. I don't think that he meant it, but I still I'm not going to play with you in that situation. I'm not going to play with you. They were a mess, I think, before Bostorov came in.

Niq:

Yes, they were, they were not getting along. But I don't even think like the backstabbing each other, they had not gotten it Like. They were like keep the turret problems in the turret at that point. But once Boston Rob fired on Bob the Drag Queen, then it became less. We can solve turret problems outside of the tour, and so that's why I said that Boston Rob like, bought in the the culture of like.

Niq:

If you got a problem with me as a trader, instead of us figuring it out and hashing it out in the turret, then I'm going to take shots with you out on you outside of the turret, which it's not that it had never like, it had never. They, the relationships between traders, had never broken down that fast, that fast. You know what I'm saying and I don't know. I like it when the traitors stick together for the beginning of the game. Yes, at some point in the game you have to play an individual game, but what makes the show fun is in the beginning, is them working together, plotting together and picking people off like. That's interesting and it's fun.

Niq:

And so, yeah, I hate that they lost that this season. Right, I would have loved to have seen the season play out differently, because there were plenty of people who, who could have been murdered and we would, like I. There are so many people like I. I said when I watched the reunion I was like I don't remember you. I definitely don't remember you. You probably had one line that was semi-interesting, and so I think it would have been so much more fun to see the traders get along and plot and plan, because I'm enjoying the other seasons like the other countries.

Jess:

Now season two, right of the UK traders. I'm enjoying more than season one, I think. So far, really yeah, so far, I think I am.

Niq:

The traders are very deliberate.

Jess:

I like their decision-making process, with the exception of getting rid of Kira. I didn't like that. I did not like that. But outside of that, I do like how they're thinking through the game.

Niq:

Well, but see, they have the benefit of being the second season. The first season was the first season of all the traitor shows, you know, and so I think that's what. So the US version wasn't the first, no, the UK version was the first traitor.

Jess:

Okay, Because I'm like Serene just came in and dominated. She did. She still is the best of the best of all of them.

Niq:

She did, she did and that season was so good, it was so engaging. Okay, I wanted to ask, as far as things that they should change next season, how do you feel about a location change? What if they don't do it in Scotland in the castle?

Jess:

I don't know, I don't know if I can handle that.

Niq:

Is it traders? If it's not at the castle in Scotland, I don't know they don not at the castle in Scotland. I mean, they don't use the castle in Scotland in any other one but the US and UK.

Jess:

I haven't watched any. I've only watched the US and UK.

Niq:

I'm pretty sure in Canada they're not using the castle and in Australia they're definitely not using the castle.

Jess:

Right now I'm probably not gonna watch camp, but I will watch so, yeah, like it.

Niq:

How do you? I don't. I'm like and I thought I was like, I'm like, why isn't they like the castle? Like they use the castle for the us version because I have to fly all of these people over to scotland, but also I I think the weather is a paid actor in the show, most definitely.

Jess:

And you get overtime.

Niq:

It does, it does, and I'm like you know. The funny thing is you can find anything in the US. You can find the same landscape as Scotland, and you can find the same weather. I don't know if you can find them together, though. Yeah, the crazy rain, they can find that in Seattle and then the rolling hills and mountains and stuff. There's so many places in America where you can find that. I don't know if you can find it all together, though.

Jess:

We don't need to be in America.

Niq:

But I mean, they keep flying Kate over for one day and I think that's so funny and as long as Kate willing to go, I'm willing to watch her. I am too. I'm praying that she's on next season because they're doing like villains and even though I don't think she's a villain, I think she would fit in with the villain cast are they doing?

Niq:

villains or is that just a no? I made that up. I'm manifesting now you're talking about, like it's already happened. I'm manifesting Now you're talking about it like it's already happened. I'm manifesting, yeah, traitor's Worst of. I don't think they can call it Villains because of that other villain show, but I think they should call it Traitor's Worst of the Worst. Okay, we'll send that idea up the flagpole and see if they.

Niq:

I'm going to blue sky, alan. If he's on blue sky, I'm going to blue sky, alan. If he's on blue sky, I'm going to blue sky, alan. It's going to happen. This is the thing. The first season, the casting won an Emmy. I'm like did y'all fire those people? Where are those people at? They honestly casted so well. It created emotional damage. Emotional damage, like maybe they were like, hey, good job on the Emmy, but we're still paying therapy bills from season one. So let's calm it down. Let's calm it down.

Jess:

I don't think I'm fully opposed to the mix either, though, because one thing that they did get is they got people. Some of the regular people were people with social media presence. You got some kind of you know, because I knew him before the show.

Niq:

I knew him before I watched the show, but I did not watch the show when it first came out. Oh, that's true. So I don't know what came first, but yeah, I was seeing Quentin on my FYP and then when I saw him on Traders I was like that's Quentin I know On TV, my cousin in my mind, right, you know. So I don't know, but I don't think that he, like he was fine after the show.

Jess:

I do too Like I'm like, but you need. You can't come off the street as like a you know working at CVS, and then go to Traders. No, you got to have something.

Niq:

The funny thing is the one I'm watching in Australia like of the traders is a woman who is a cashier at a supermarket and she's okay, but the other versions it's all regular people it is, so they're okay.

Jess:

If we're doing all regular things, yes, absolutely Like a CVS, most definitely, but it's the mix of the gamers and the regular people that can't handle it. So maybe you've been somebody who may be not as famous but has a strong social media presence, something where you've been on the camera in front of people before you know you've had to deal with some ups and downs.

Niq:

Well, I think so. For example, when I was watching the Mole on Netflix, the person who they actually chose to be the Mole, he was like an undercover cop in real life. And so I think it's more like, if you have like, they need to find people who have strategic minds because, like the reality TV people, because they're used to like being on TV, they understand that like TV is not real, and then the gamers have, like all of this strategy. The regular people have to have something extra. Maybe you got a.

Jess:

Military background.

Niq:

Right, you're a therapist. They have to have some kind of advantage in order to compete.

Jess:

Yeah, I still seeing Andy'm like I still seeing Andy break down a bit like I can still see it in my head. I feel for that girl I want somebody to give that baby a hug.

Niq:

I think she's a they. I'm sorry, I think they are a they. They are a they.

Jess:

But yeah, somebody give them a hug.

Niq:

Right, yeah, I'm like you were not built for this, you know, because, honestly, I'm one of the things that there was very little hard feelings at the reunion. Like Dorinda was like still mad at Bob, but I really honestly think it's because no one knows who she is and even though, like Danielle was like oh oh, we can't ever play a game together where I trust you, she's like on a personal level though, we're cool, you know, like, and I appreciate like that, like okay, there's real life and then there's gameplay. You know, I like that and I'm like that's hard for regular people, that is right. We only know about real life and so like, oh, I feel betrayed, although I think I would be okay. It depends.

Jess:

I mean, I can handle it, I could go on, I could be. I could definitely be a traitor, I could do the show. There is a lot to where I would be pissed off with you in real life, but it's still just gonna make it for a good reunion show. So either way, I don't know because.

Niq:

I'm going to be pissed off with you in real life, but it's still just going to make for a good reunion show. So either way, I don't know, because I also imagine I would be a traitor. And if I'm a traitor I would do what I would need to do to win. So how can I begrudge somebody else doing the same?

Jess:

thing Because I'm telling you what the line is for me. I can deal with most of the backstabbing and all that kind of stuff. You Trishel me. I'm going to be pissed at you for real life because I'm going to hate you as a person.

Niq:

Well that, because then that person will be worthy of hate.

Jess:

Yeah but I'm saying there's a line because I'm like, oh, that's that stuff that they always do and I wouldn't be done with her as a person and I'm really the street I mean.

Niq:

But like is to me what Trishel was doing was not gameplay, no, it was microaggressions.

Jess:

Right, that was racism, and so that that's different, yeah, so but I'm saying like so no, there is a scenario in which I will really be angry with you, but I still can handle the. You know what I mean. Right, the Boston, Rob Bob, the Drag thing, queen thing, you know.

Niq:

Can we just for a second talk about Bob's outfit? Yes, yes, it was so good and I thought it was hilarious when he was like oh, belong to my grandma, that was hilarious. He was like oh, belong to my grandma, that was hilarious. Yes, he had the red gloves that looked like nails, but then they had something hanging from them and his hair like the basket weave Creativity. Most people were dressed really nice. No one looked really bad, although Boston Rob stood up and he was like I think I look pretty good today. Those pants fit terribly.

Jess:

You still refuse to go to a tailor.

Niq:

I'm like are you wearing baggy? Are you wearing sweatpants? But they're formal or something.

Jess:

I have never seen a baggy tuxedo. I've never seen somebody trying to slouch a tuxedo before.

Niq:

But you know, hey go off sis, but Bob, like Bob, it was so good. But what was also funny was like how like cut out, the dress is around like the breast area with no breast in it, whatsoever. Area with no breasts in it, what's I'm like. But he's sitting like so convincing that I kept looking for breasts.

Jess:

I love Bob's outfit and I think that's the thing like, yeah, I wasn't. I understood when um, what's his name? Rob got him off and why he got him off, but I'm like I just missed his presence in the show. I wanted to see more and I thought I was going to have a lot more about the drag queen in the show.

Niq:

Yes, I think he definitely would have been a delight, he definitely would have been like a joy and I would have traded him for Dolores in a minute, or Ivar, they were both nothing. You know a lot of people like even her mushroomy antics like they were entertaining she could be on the show, but like there was a lot of like dead weight, the guy that we apparently have blended into the identity of Tom Sandoval. Yeah, yeah, Sam Tom Jr. Yes, apparently he didn't have to be on the show. Yeah could have had just more.

Jess:

Bob the Drag Queen.

Niq:

I'm very happy. I really enjoyed our conversation. I hope somebody can clip at least our suggestions in the most I'm like. Do I need to send it to Andy? Is Andy involved? I know he always does the reunion but I don't know he gets his ladies on the show by agreeing to host the reunion.

Niq:

Love it, I don't know. Somebody, let me know who I need to contact. I have notes, yes, and I'm trying to help. You can have all my notes for free, no charge, because I just want a good season next season. Okay, I'm generous, I'm generous, but, guys, I hope you enjoyed our Traders finale and look forward to our next episode, when we'll be back. What are we going to be discussing? What's coming up?

Jess:

next is the resort.

Niq:

Oh, we have the resort. We've got some really interesting, lighthearted and fun shows coming down the pipeline before we get back to some more serious shows, so look out for our future episodes, guys.

Jess:

Thank you Bye.