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Next Episode
Cross My Heart
This episode explores the intricate dynamics of male friendships, specifically focusing on the relationship between Alex and 2John; also Alex and Elle. We discuss themes of vulnerability, accountability, and the emotional challenges that arise within their friendship, illustrating the importance of honesty and support in building lasting connections.
• Examination of Alex and 2John's long-standing friendship
• Discussion on the rarity of emotional vulnerability in male relationships
• Conflict as a pathway to deeper understanding and growth
• Insights on Alex's struggles with grief and rage
• Evaluation of female characters and their roles in male narratives
• Exploration of romantic dynamics and emotional availability
• Call for healthier emotional connections among men
• Reflection on lessons learned about accountability in friendships
• Looking forward to the evolution of character arcs in future seasons
Hi guys, welcome back to next episode. I'm Nick and I'm Jess, and today is our final episode about Cross, and I'm really, really excited about this episode. We're going to be talking about relationships and I've been looking forward to this conversation the entire time, so I want to start talking about friendships, specifically Alex's friendship with 2John. I love it and the reason why I love it and I think we talked about this on a different episode Was it Average Joe where we talked about? We don't often get to see healthy relationships amongst men.
Speaker 2:No, it was Supercell, and we were talking about the relationship with rodney and spud yes.
Speaker 1:So it's not often that you get to see like an example of healthy male relationships and I, honestly, this is a a prime example. A prime example. First of all, it's a long-standing relationship. They've been friends, uh, since they were children. Second of all, it's a long-standing relationship. They've been friends, uh, since they were children. Second of all, it's a relationship where two john holds alex accountable for the mistakes that he's made and even like avoiding, like, getting healing, and that's beautiful to see, like, like, because he loves him, like to me, that shows that he loves him more and deeper, because you know, like, if you're really, yes, definitely, and so I love to see it like. I love their conversations, I love the fact that 2john calls Alex sugar still back in my head.
Speaker 1:I hear that what he he does. He calls him sugar. It's like his own little personal nickname and I just think that that's so cute one. It's, it's cute. But I just I like the familiarity. The weekend I can be like close, invulnerable, without it being weird, you know what I mean. I can be my full self and I think that they can be like close and vulnerable without it being weird. You know what I mean. I can be my full self and I think that they can be their full selves with each other. Because I feel like alex is really going through it and I don't. He's not hiding that from two john two john sees, he does not hide it at all and I think that that, once again, that's a sign of a good relationship. No, I'm not in the best place, I'm not my best self, but I'm not willing to. I'm not going to hide that from you.
Speaker 2:You can see all of me true, true, that makes sense and you don't get to see that with men, a lot that means and honest about. Well, there's, there's because Alice is struggling with his emotions, although that he can effectively communicate them at all times. But you still see it, he's not hiding it.
Speaker 1:Yeah right and he I think he does communicate his emotions they're just all wrapped up in rage and anger right now because the way that Alex amps out on to John, like when I tell you, that conversation, affected me emotionally. Like alex and 2john, like they are closer than brothers and 2john has honestly had alex's back and that does not. I'm not saying that it's a one-sided relationship because I did. I don't feel like that way at all. They have each other's back, they love each other, they look out for each other. But Alex is in a bad place, a dark place, and he honestly says things to 2john intentionally to hurt him and to rip him to shreds. And I agree it was hard to watch. It hurt I. I know it hurt 2john's feelings because it hurt my feelings that he wasn't talking to me or about me. No, I don't know. The beautiful thing about the aftermath of that scene is 2john's stance on business. He does.
Speaker 1:He stands on business and he really takes a space from Alex emotionally. He still works with him, you know, and he still supports him in a lot of ways, but he really puts an emotional space in between them to show him that the way that he was acting was not right. Like, if you think about it, the the most touching and emotional moments are between the two of them, and it's when I say love story, of course I don't mean in a way that's sexual romantic yeah not at all, but it is a deep, unabiding love that they share for each other that I hope everybody gets to experience in their lifetime.
Speaker 1:I hope that everybody has a friend and gets to experience that relationship, because everybody needs that. Everybody needs that person that you can be yourself with, that you know is going to have your back no matter what, who wants the best for you and who's also going to push you to be your best self.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I also think it's good for people to see that you can resolve conflicts and friendship.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:You can have really hard knockdown, drag outs and and come past it and get past it Now. I don't mean like just accepting people treating you horribly on a long-term basis, but it's very clear that this is this is a temporary thing. He is going through it right now. This is not the entirety of their friendship and I feel like it's not going to be the future of it either, but they're able to work through it and I think we're going to see some more working through it in season two.
Speaker 1:But yes, I agree, but he also did not cave in. He really kept that distance from him while not spurning him.
Speaker 2:Right, he was still helping him. He wasn't trying to be spiteful. He was still doing things to help him in the background.
Speaker 1:That's why I'm like 2 John is the greatest, like 2 John is the greatest. He's the greatest man ever, you know. And so I, I love to see them work together like how they work in tandem. I their friendship, them work together like how they work in tandem. Their friendship is great and amazing and I did not realize that that was something that I needed. And until I'm starting to see it like, I am really enjoying seeing healthy male friendships. I love being able to see men explore their emotions in a safe space. I've been enjoying seeing men vulnerable and, like you said, solving problems and thinking critically. You know, problem solving with each other and not just avoiding it right now.
Speaker 1:Here's the thing they did almost come to blows. They did come to blows when they were having that, that, that argument, and I wonder if they would have physically, um, got into blows if the argument would have like quickly ended, like would have ended faster if because, honestly, the the whole point of the argument was that alex washing out, he hurt and he was enraged and he was lashing out and I wonder if they would have gone into blows if he would have expended that energy, if they would have made up faster. I'm just curious about that. I'm not saying that that's healthy, I'm just curious.
Speaker 2:I honestly felt like they were going to come to blows anyway if the Black woman hadn't gotten in between them. They were, I don't. I honestly felt like they were going to come close anyway if the Black woman hadn't gotten in between them. Yes, like they were about to fight if they hadn't, and I still think that they could have recovered from that, but still, oh yeah, they could have. But yeah, I think I, yeah, no, I don't know that that, like physically fighting, would have helped them get over it.
Speaker 1:You know they both are boxers also Like and would have helped them get over it. Well, you know they both are boxers also Like. That's something that they do. They do like as workout, you know as training. They also box together and so even like. That's why I'm like I wonder if, like, getting out that physical like as a way to release that rage. You know how it's like you see somebody mad and they like punch a wall or they hit us back like, is that the healthiest way to get out your anger? Maybe not necessarily, but like there's a, there's a connection you're not hurting another person.
Speaker 2:That I don't think is like if you go to a rage room, or you know what I mean like you're not destroying something that's like long, like you punch a pillow or punch a bag, something that's not going to hurt anybody and cause lasting damage.
Speaker 1:Hey, get that energy out but because we agree that there's a connection sometimes between physical and emotional energy yeah, I do so. But yeah, they almost came to blows, but they didn't. Thank God, because I'm like those are two strong men. Okay, those are two big dudes. It would have been like two statues fighting each other Girl. And I'm going to be real, I didn't want to see it.
Speaker 2:I didn't want to see it either. I did not want to see it either, even if both of them had taken their shirts off, which that I did want to see.
Speaker 1:Like they do such a good job of portraying like emotions, Like you can be emotional, you can be vulnerable with your friend and it doesn't take away from like your manhood, your masculinity or anything. And I love it and I want to see. I want to see more of it. I want to see more of it.
Speaker 2:I don't think anybody would say either of those two men were not masculine, but at the same time, yes, they were very kind, of open and they talked about their feelings and one of them tried to get the other one help you know he did, he really tried.
Speaker 1:Here's the thing like 2john was really up front with him. He was like he strong armed him into making a therapy appointment. He really like stayed on him about the therapy. Do you think he was too pushy with that? Um, I don't think so, and the reason why, the only reason why I say that, is because alex is stubborn and, like you said, he's a know-it-all and he's drowning. His kids are suffering because of it. You know what I mean. And I think that, like you said, he's really focused on finding his wife's killer, because she he thinks that's gonna solve all his problems and I don't think that that will solve any problem. It never does.
Speaker 1:How many times have we seen that story? You find the killer and you kill them and you are still broken on the inside. So I I don't think that he was. I think I don't that he was being too pushy. I think it needed someone who was not going to let him forget. Hey, listen, a lot of people think that you have it together, but I know you and I know you don't have it together. Imagine if every man had a friend like that. You know it would be. Friend like that girl, you know, it would be amazing, like you know in general.
Speaker 1:If they would just hold each other accountable, that would be amazing and emotionally support each other and like allow them to experience real emotions. You know what I mean. Yeah, I know what you mean. I think that men need that and apparently I need to see men.
Speaker 2:It's nice to see it depicted. It is nice to see it depicted on TV and I do feel like we get more Because you like well, I think you were talking about the one that we were talking about, supercell, where we really liked that relationship. But you do see elements of that in Average Joe as well, with, I think, deon Cole and goodness, deon Cole, and that who looks like Dave Chappelle.
Speaker 2:I don't know his name, but he looks like Dave Chappelle to me like their friendship went through some ups and downs and you see them both take it out on each other and then recover from that and apologize to each other, and so yeah, yeah, apparently that's needed like more, more male friendships that are healthy.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I I enjoyed seeing that. I enjoyed the fact that alex had a community, you know, because there's a lot of talk that says that Black men don't know how to build community, and so I thought that was a great example of building community. Like, not only did he have Nana, mama, who was, like you know, a parental figure, but he had like a variety of friends, people who not only he could count on but who count on him. So it wasn't like a one sided thing where he had people who he was using when he needed people, he also had people who relied on him, and I think that's an important aspect that we don't often see and that we know Right, the relationships aren't one-sided, absolutely Right. So I enjoyed watching him be in community. Like I said, I also like the fact that he was not the only star on his team.
Speaker 1:You know, there's oftentimes depicted in shows where, like, there's this one person who's head and shoulders above everybody else, he's like he's the super genius who can come in and solve and everybody else is just carrying water behind him, you know. But you see, like Kayla is really good at what she does. 2john is really good at what he does and he's well respected. He's known around town, just like Alex is known around town. You know what I mean. So I like seeing, I like seeing. I like seeing that because Alex needs that, because once again, alex thinks that he knows all and he needs people around him who can show him, who can teach him stuff. The fact that he trusted 2John to go on that fact-finding mission, like on a normal show, that would have been the main character he would have had to go and do all that.
Speaker 2:Go and do everything Right.
Speaker 1:I really enjoyed that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I really did. Okay, so this is a small part. It's probably only me who paid attention to this, but I do like the bit of character development that we got from the Black female police officer that we keep calling just the Black woman. But what was her name? Sean, detective, sean, something like that. I liked it because one again, you're in that system, the system is in perfect.
Speaker 2:We see her go from just being a total line to me she's trying to do what the captain says at first and then once she kind of breaks out of that, snaps out of it, once she realizes no, this really is a murder and this should not be squeezed under the rug. Then you start to see her do some active, active, actual detective work and I said, hold on, she's not a bad detective, for whatever reason. Like she in that in that moment. That was not her best moment that we see her at the beginning. But then once she actually starts doing some police work and she tracks down the pharmacy, and she tracks down you know the name, and then she gets mad when she realizes it's a fake name. But I'm like, but nope, but sweetie, this is the stuff we wanted you to do the whole time, right right, actually look into it like yeah, no, I like that too.
Speaker 1:Maybe we'll see more of her, you know? Yeah, because I'm like who's going to take over for the captain now that she's like locked up?
Speaker 2:oh yeah, the captain's locked up and then the chief is going to be is trying to be a mayor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm still so irritated with the captain, but it just doesn't make sense.
Speaker 2:Oh, the captain and the baby yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the captain and the baby, and throwing away your entire life for a baby, a baby that she will not get to raise.
Speaker 2:It doesn't make sense. But honestly, the cat thing gets on my nerves even more because I feel like she is way too accurate of a representation of what we get in policing and she just does not give a fuck about anybody but, her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they. There's definitely at least how it feels. I feel like the show portrays how policing feels from. Yeah, I can't say how accurate, the truth is somewhere in the middle, but they did capture it.
Speaker 2:Because I don't think it's even, but yeah, it does. It's definitely how it feels outside looking in, because I don't think it's even, but like, but yeah, yeah it does. It's definitely how it feels outside looking in, like you just really don't care. Like these, there are certain people that are just disposable to you and then once you realize that cross is right and that Ed Ramsey is the killer, now it needs to be handled with kid gloves, now it needs to be perfect. Now we need to do real police work yeah, that's very true.
Speaker 1:You know what the killer is, and not because of the victims right, that's sad, I didn't think about that, but I want to talk about something juicy, okay. Sorry, go ahead. I want to talk about ellen alex, okay. So let me say this. I'm going to say this. Okay, like I said, I think, in a previous episode, I've heard that dating in DC is rough, it's not for the weak, and I know this character, like we learned that. She has been like in love with Alex since middle school and I understand that he seems like a very, very eligible bachelor. He seems like it since middle school and I understand that he seems like a very, very eligible bachelor. He seems like it. But she is crazy to be dating that man. Absolutely, he's not available. He's not available. He's not emotionally available at all.
Speaker 2:I need more information. I get it Because out is hard, it's fun as hell and it would be hard for me, but I'm like absolutely not. But you know the moment for like well one. It's obvious that he is still way too emotionally entangled with his wife and he has not dealt with his grief. So I don't care that he's single, he is not available and I do feel like that's obvious from the beginning. But if no other moment, if you let's say you, you, you miss that and you're still trying to be in this relationship with him.
Speaker 2:The moment that where I'm like okay, out of taj, and now I'm out, is right, is is when you realize when you're at the serial killer's house and you realize that he thinks that Ed Ramsey is the serial killer and he still let you go because she has a relationship with Ed Ramsey the serial killer, they have some sort of, and so he did not warn her, he did not try and protect her. She's in this house and she's brought the kids from her foundation to the serial killer's house. At that point I'm done. I don't care what your reasoning is. You don't care about my safety and my protection at all.
Speaker 1:No, that's wild. I want more information. When did they start dating? They say, oh, it's been over a year since the wife has dated. How long have they been dating? It's not clear. I feel like she was like I need to get ahead of the line. I'm like she was at the funeral, I know she was at the funeral.
Speaker 2:You know she was at the funeral. I don't think they started dating then, but you know she was at the funeral with pies in hand.
Speaker 1:Yes, she was at that house with chicken. Okay, I just think that, like, because here's the thing, she is putting herself in a position to get hurt. I know, like the show is portraying that they're in a happily ever after situation, but if this was the real realm, that man would play with her feelings until he actually got over his wife and then he would go find somebody else, he would be out.
Speaker 2:Absolutely would. This does not make sense from her perspective at all. She's getting nothing out of this relationship and at this point you're getting nothing. You're not getting the emotional needs met, you're not getting your physical needs met, nothing. You are just sitting here being with this really really broken man at his leisure. Yes, it's no sense.
Speaker 1:It doesn't make sense. She is sitting here being with this really, really broken man at his leisure.
Speaker 2:Yes, it makes no sense it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1:She is gorgeous that's.
Speaker 2:The other thing is that she is breathtakingly gorgeous like that. She is beautiful.
Speaker 1:She is absolutely beautiful she is beautiful in a way that black women are not anymore, in a sense that she gives 90s beauty like you remember that. What was the army group? Like Jhene like when I saw her like their song started playing. Like, like her hair.
Speaker 1:Like she looks like a classic beauty like a like she's like not class, like if we're calling the 90s classic now, but she looks like like think about holly berry in the 90s like when, when you, in order to be beautiful, you looked like it was like a natural beauty. You know, like nowadays, like nowadays, like our beauty is more skewed and it's more surgically enhanced beauty. It's when you think about beauty you think about people and they're more surgically enhanced now, like she is a woke up, like this beauty. Okay, like she looks. I don't know she looks like. When I saw her I'm like oh my God, she's like beautiful. When you just had to be beautiful, you didn't have all that extra help.
Speaker 1:You just had to be gorgeous. But so, yes, she's beautiful, she's professionally accomplished, like she's in the rooms with some of the most powerful people in the city. Girl, why are you chasing this man? I like I know it's hard to find go date a diplomat. You live in DC. Go date a diplomat because this man is going to hurt you.
Speaker 1:And the point that you made? Yes, it is insane that he was pretty sure, 99% sure, that Ed Ramsey was a serial killer. And, yes, he let her come to the house with no warning, knowing that she deals closely with him Because before he knew Ed Ramsey was the serial killer. She introduced him to Ed Ramsey, right? So she knew how closely they worked together because Ed Ramsey is a big supporter of her foundation. He introduces her to people, he helps, he, you know, he pledges money, he really helps her with the funding for her foundation. So we're assuming like they've been in this relationship. So he knows how important Ed Ramsey is to her and how closely they work together. Yeah, no warning, none, none. He could have you put that investigation ahead of that woman. Would you have done that with your children?
Speaker 2:You never would have done that with Maria. You are right, he never would have done that. He never would have done that with Maria. And for that reason I'm out. You know what I mean. I'm done. I can't look at you the same after that. Right, I cannot look at you the same after that. But, like there's a weird desperation that does not make sense with her.
Speaker 1:It doesn't, but it does in a sense when, like you know, like when you're trying to date at a certain level and then you don't feel like you have a lot of options and once again you have the nostalgia factor where she has been plotting on this man since middle school and I don't, I'm surprised. Maria made it down to all so she didn't poison her.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying, like like she's.
Speaker 1:I think it's one of those things like okay, this is, maria is dead, this is my opportunity. I gotta go him before somebody else does. I think that that's the situation, but also like their. Their relationship was very unclear on what the lines were, what the boundaries were, because in the beginning it seemed like their relationship was like just like kind of like slightly more than a friendship, like friendship with a lot of attraction, were headed somewhere, but it seems kind of separate from his life.
Speaker 2:And then all of a sudden she was around the kids yeah, it is unclear because, like also like at the beginning, when they're first going out on a date, like one time they're at dinner and she says something like oh, if you do something again, I'm gonna call Harold. She's like, oh, he's like you got you, you name him, you put the name to my competition, as if they're not in a monogamous relationship, like they're still early dating, but then she's around the kids and there's familiarity with her and the children as if she's been around them. So it's very unclear, but I also think it's very unclear to them.
Speaker 1:You know, here's the thing. I've been in an unclear situation thing, and there were children there too. I've done that an unclear situation thing, and there were children there too. I've done that.
Speaker 2:I know it still did not look like that but I think that's because they're fighting so much stuff it's unclear. I doubt that they've defined anything as to why she has a backup date to begin with, and so they're just kind of coming in anything as to why she has a backup date, you know, to begin with, and so she's kind of they're just kind of coming in and out of each other's lives in this strange way. So yeah, I don't think that either of them is very clear as what go. I think she knows what she wants and she's willing to deal with this uncleanness to get to what she wants, but I don't think they've defined anything.
Speaker 1:I still don't understand how he's able to date when you are constantly crying over your wife and your wife being dead and still dealing with that and, like you know, like he has one foot in and one foot out, like the first time, like they have a romantic date and it looks like they're going to consummate their relationship and he breaks down crying. It's like I thought's, like I thought I was ready. I thought I was ready. How did you think he's not ready to do anything? Hold on, hold on, hold on. How did you think you were ready, though? Because you are constantly like Maria.
Speaker 1:Maria was the best woman. She made the best waffles, she sang the best songs, she played the best piano. Nobody can make Kool-Aid like Maria. That's what your conversation is 24-7, when you're not solving a case, you're talking about how much you miss your wife and how sad you are. So what made you think that you were ready? What indication did you get? Yeah, I think I would have stopped messing with him at that point and that was before the party Because I'm just like, yeah, because I'm just like you know.
Speaker 2:That's fair, because if you're not ready, you're not ready and it's not like you have to have sex to have a relationship. But clearly this is more than about sex. You are just not ready to have anything.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly, i'm'm sorry. I want to be clear. I wasn't sure she should leave him because he wouldn't have sex with her. I'm saying was like his reaction showed where he was emotionally, that he's not ready to be committed to anyone in any kind of way.
Speaker 1:But she should have known that if you are really getting to know this man and you are developing or rekindling feelings or whatever you got going on. I don't know what your 10 step plan is, but if you are getting to know this man in any capacity, then you know he is not ready for anything and he's not even ready for a casual thing. He's not you. He's not even ready for a casual thing. He's not yeah, he's not even ready for F buddy, he's not and so my question is in this situation, if L gets hurt, is it on her?
Speaker 2:I think, yeah, I think she's had enough. I don't know because, like you, cannot be accountable for the actions of other people. So, like I, yes, because it's obvious, and it's obvious that she should take a step back, and I think her desperation to be in a relationship specifically with this man is overriding her common sense. So, yes, but it's still not okay. Cross has come to a realization that he is not ready. So when he said I'm not ready. So when he said I'm not ready, it should have just been like I'm not ready for sex today. It should have been I'm not ready for this and ended the relationship. Everybody's responsible for the things that they do. And although he might be coming to that realization late, he came to it. And you still engage with her back and forth.
Speaker 1:Right, that's messed up. It's messed up, it's messed up. I was watching the show and I'm like man, this is crazy. But I'm also like side eyeing her because I'm like girl. You don't understand, like you think you're plotting on him, but you are going to be the, you're going to be his bandaid and then, once he's healed, he's going to move on because he doesn't want to. He doesn't want that person who was with him when he was a mess. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:What does he know about you? Cause that's what I can't see. I'm like what do you, what do you want from Elle?
Speaker 1:You're not getting to know her.
Speaker 2:We're childhood friends. That don't mean you really like you get to know people on different levels when you're in a relationship like you're not I don't.
Speaker 1:I feel like they. I don't, I don't, I feel like they've always known each other, like I don't think this is like oh, I haven't seen you in 20 years.
Speaker 2:Situation like I don't feel like he's getting, like what are you getting from her? Like what do you want from her? You are not spending quality time with her, you're not.
Speaker 1:You know you're not getting the heart on a relationship level, you're just kind of he's practicing how to be a human again on her because, look like she invited him to that party he didn't know how to act. But I'm just like you were like in here, like you were trying, she, I feel like he, she's trying to like teach him how to be human again, you know, and not just be like a rage machine. But I I'm like why, like that's not your job, baby, because that's another thing, like you, from everybody.
Speaker 2:first of all, after that situation, everybody get out my house, like everybody get out my house, yeah, but I'm billing everybody from my China at least.
Speaker 2:I'm calling whoever I don't know. I'm calling Crystal tomorrow. I'm gonna trying to. At least I'm calling whoever I don't know. I'm calling Crystal tomorrow. I'm gonna call his girlfriend, chris. Whoever bought that raggedy negro, I'm calling her tomorrow. You need to check your man, because that don't make no sense. I didn't got rid of this man because that didn't make no sense. This whole situation. I'm over it and trust and believe there will never be a co-ed party with that dude invited up again, because he did that on purpose.
Speaker 1:Elle does not stand on business. She don't, and I'm going to tell you, I'm going to give you a prime example of how she doesn't stand on business. So when they're at the cabin, it's her. Miss Nancy and the children are at the cabin, and now she knows that Miss Nancy is a danger and she puts the sleeping pills in Miss Nancy's cup. The fact that once she thinks Miss Nancy fell asleep, she did not bash her head in with something heavy, lets me know she did not stand no business see, okay, I don't know cause, like I was like, but she was very defensive and protective of the children.
Speaker 2:I did like that. She was very defensive and protective of the children. I did like that. Yeah, she was really trying Her survival instincts are weak.
Speaker 1:Her survival instincts are weak and that's why she lets Alex treat her like that, because she don't have no survival instincts. Why don't?
Speaker 2:you. She's a wonderful person from the outside looking in. She got the makeup to be a wonderful person. I don't know.
Speaker 1:I don't think she's a bad person at all.
Speaker 2:I don't think she's a bad person.
Speaker 1:I think she doesn't love herself enough.
Speaker 2:Let me tell you what did you think about that moment where she's about to take the kids to the piano recital? Because me and the friend I watched it with yesterday had the exact same reaction at the exact same time the first time I watched it, right before she's about to take the kids to the piano recital. She's talking to Nana Mama. I hate that name, but she's talking to her.
Speaker 1:I also hate that name, so I didn't know. You hated it. Hate it, you don't call.
Speaker 2:Grandma Nana and I'm like yeah, we will make up a name and mix names together, but that didn't do. All right, Nana will make up a name and mix names together, but that didn't feel right.
Speaker 1:Now I'm going to sound very awkward in my mouth. It does.
Speaker 2:I don't like it. But yeah, she gets really creepy and weird and at first I was like hold on, I didn't think she was the street mom but I was like, is she involved? Somehow I got this real creepy feeling from Elle and I was like, hold on, did she do something? Did she have something to do with this? I don't know. She was just being really creepy. But now, knowing like that she's not a part of the stalker family and not involved in any way in the bad stuff, I'm like oh, was that just desperation?
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's very thirsty. It was also weird that the grandma called her over to take the kids to the recital, because once again, it did not feel like that's where they, that they were there, yet it did not feel like that they are.
Speaker 2:They should not have been there yet, because you are not a place where you should even know who these kids are, and maybe she knew them before because they didn't know each other so long, so maybe they have known her.
Speaker 2:But like, um, yeah, yeah, you shouldn't be interacting with these kids at this point. It was weird and I did think that she wanted to tell her that hey, don't take this out on my nephew yet. But again, pushing him towards a relationship is not the same as helping him get over his grief and him having a relationship does not mean, clearly, that he has he's you know dealt with his grief.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, I, yeah. She was thirsty because she was like, well, I mean, did you come over, did you call me over here for a particular thing? And I'm like this conversation was weird.
Speaker 1:It was a very it was a very awkwardly written conversation. The conversation was awkwardly written but it also like, yes, I feel like it showed like her thirst to be a part of it, because I just I'm like this is not appropriate. It's. It's weird, you know, for her to to invite, because I'm like you want to go to a game or something, and I understand that that his grandma does a lot for them kids and she probably needed a night off, a a break, but I'm just like you ain't got nobody else. 2 John ain't busy. It's something very intimate to me, I think, about the piano recital, knowing that he's going to be wearing the mom's watch and that him learning to play piano has been something he's been struggling with since his mom's death.
Speaker 1:It all felt too intimate, too important for her to be the one.
Speaker 2:Agreed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I just I don't know. Like I said, she's trying to get in line to make sure nobody else get him. Meanwhile you are getting drug for filth, Like you are putting your life in danger for a man you slept with one time.
Speaker 2:I hope they break up in the off season. I really do, Are you serious? I'm dead serious. I hope they break up in the off season. I hope that we come back and they're like oh yeah, you know, since we decided that we're just going to take some time, Because that's what needs to happen.
Speaker 1:Is this because you want all the time to be single? No, because that's what needs to happen. Um, is this because you want all this?
Speaker 2:hard shit to be single. No, because he's not single in real life, so no, I mean that shit is hell, but like it's, because there's nothing about their relationship that's healthy to the point where you put yourself in this super dangerous situation for this man, even though I know she's like. Nobody at the time had the context that this was dangerous, but you should have been broke up with him.
Speaker 1:We knew it was dangerous because we knew it was a crazy stalker who had already done so many crazy shenanigans. I did not understand why that makes it even worse.
Speaker 2:She knows Ed Ramsey is a serial killer and she's still like, but this man, and like I said, I get it, this is fine, I get it, but I value my life she was like oh, the kids can come, there's a stalker.
Speaker 1:Oh, the kids can come to my house, your house, but then also you like, no, I'll go to. I'll take your kids to this cabin in the woods where there's no internet and no cell phone. After your grandma just got beat up, peter beat the bricks off that woman, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I feel like she gave him a run for his money, though it sounded like she was in there, like you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Now I'm going to play with. I was very thankful of the way that they did that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I didn't want to see that either sometimes we don't need to see every little violent bit. I'm glad, thank you for that. I appreciate that as well.
Speaker 2:But okay, because like the first thing and this thing, again you know who I am as a person because the first thing I probably in my mind is like, when she said there's no internet, I'm bringing my mobile hotspot. I'm not going in the, even if I agreed to go to the cabin. I've got my mobile hotspot, I've got backup chargers, because we're not going for an unplugged trip. We are just trying to escape this killer. So I'm not about to be alone with you and no way to communicate with anybody. I'm also taking my own car, like there's so many things that I'm like what the hell is wrong with you. And even and you know me I would do that, thinking that she wasn't dangerous.
Speaker 1:Right, right, yeah, I just I'm like I don't understand what her payoff is. I mean, I understand what she thinks her payoff will be, but the price is too high.
Speaker 2:The price is too high. I ain't never wanted any man that bad. Yeah, I forgot that. She does understand that there's a stalker too and a serial killer, and she still was like, but if I can just lock him down.
Speaker 1:Right, I'm taking care of the kids. Now I'm in there. I'm in there like swimming. Yeah, the grandma called me Right. But can we be honest, though, we know women who have done more or less.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that wasn't us, and not to say that we didn't do some stupid things.
Speaker 1:We have. I mean, who hasn't? You've lived life? You've done some super stuff.
Speaker 2:You've done some dumb stuff, but yeah, that's a bridge too far.
Speaker 1:It is, it is. I'm telling you, he would have lost me at that night when he was like I'm not ready. Okay, thank you, that's fine.
Speaker 2:I truly do believe in real life. Yes, at that moment, that you're saying you're not ready because I understand that I'm not ready does not just mean I'm not ready for sex. If you didn't get it, then definitely at that party. At that party, I will never speak to you again. Do you understand me Right? I'm blocking your number.
Speaker 1:I will never speak to you again. I'm also pulling the fire alarm. Everybody, we all got to go. It is not safe. This nigga's killing folks.
Speaker 2:Did you see that? You know, what bothered me about that scene is that they left them kids in there. They left them black children in there with that serial killer Singing.
Speaker 1:Fuck this man's birthday Right. Everybody come with me. She like I still need that $250. I'm taking that.
Speaker 2:You know what time it went to. We were at Myrtle Beach and I was like I put that frat boy who was in danger in the car. I was like get in the car, we all go in. I don't remember that Girl. You know we went to that club and them dudes rolled up on us after afterwards because, like the frat boy was with us, he thought that the frat boy was taking us and I was like everybody, get in the car, Get in the car now it car now.
Speaker 1:Oh, wait a minute, that guy is still my Facebook friend, really. Yeah, I think his name starts with like a T or something. He looks like Puerto Rican or something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm still Facebook friends with that guy. I forgot about that's how we met him.
Speaker 2:I'm like my natural instinct. All the kids I don't give a. These rich folks can do what they want to do. All these kids get in the car with me and we go home.
Speaker 1:If you live in a one-parent home, come on, it's time to go Line up. If you got free school lunch, let's go.
Speaker 2:Line up.
Speaker 1:The party's over. No, you ain't gonna get no cake. We'll stop my public school right now.
Speaker 2:Get in the. Don't ask me.
Speaker 1:I will explain in the car. Get in the car, you can sing in the car, I'll give you the ox. Okay, yeah, that was crazy.
Speaker 2:I was like she got that card and them kids were still singing. What is she doing?
Speaker 1:yeah, that's wild, because I know them kids came with you. I know them kids came with you.
Speaker 2:They all got on therefore, because of you, and at this point you know, this man is a serial killer right and he doesn't.
Speaker 1:He hasn't even explained to her, like his ins and outs, what he's into, like nothing. So like you don't know what his type is, you don't. All you know is, honestly, he got a he, he, he does not like alex and they're going toe to toe. So anything connected to alex is vulnerable. You connected to alex, them kids connected to you. Girl six degrees of separation of separation.
Speaker 2:Okay, so like, and we're dealing with her perspective, what she know at this point, you also knew that they were like in this pissing contest, with each other blowing up each other's spot, and that rant that Ed Ramsey went on was incredibly racist about the mom, about Alex Cross yeah, talking about his mom is a drug dealer, prostitute. I'm like it just gives such a racist vibe too. And again you leave these Black children with a serial killer.
Speaker 1:Here's the thing it was when she looked at him and he looked at her and he's like I think the story's about me. I was like, when I was listening to what I said, I just something, something this is not right. Like I'm like no, he's talking specifically, like I knew that he was not talking about the person he said he was talking about, but I'm like I feel like he calling somebody out and it's the way that she looked at him like and they both at the same time. I feel like he calling somebody out and it's the way that she looked at him like. She's like did you tell him your mama was a hoe? He was like no, did you tell him my mama was a hoe?
Speaker 2:How do you know, I like Pappy Van Winkle.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, that was. That was a little. I'm not gonna lie, that part was a little funny. I know it was supposed to be like emotional, it was. I laughed too. I laughed.
Speaker 1:So yeah, she is. She's tripping like Alex is wrong, but and I'm not giving him a pass because of what he's. She's tripping like Alex is wrong, but and I'm not giving him a pass because of what he's going through. But what I'm saying is, if anyone, but if she is clear headed in the situation and she is purposely not, she is with just putting herself in a situation where she is going to get hurt, like if Alex is already hurting, so whatever, but she's putting herself in a situation where she can get hurt, like if Alice is already hurting, so whatever, but she's putting herself in a situation where she can get hurt emotionally and then it turns into her actually putting herself in a situation where she's physically in danger and trying to protect them.
Speaker 1:Kids that are not yours, that is not your man, so those are not even like your step kids. You know what I'm saying like girl. I don't know what he put on her, that is not your man, so that's not even like your stepkids. You know what I'm saying Like girl, I don't know what he put on her.
Speaker 2:But no, but it was already. It was on her since eighth grade, like she'd have been. You know what I mean. Like before he actually put it on her, it was already on her Cause like I would have stopped so long before then.
Speaker 1:You know what I bet she was like. So she's been in love with him since middle school. I bet she was also like looking at his relationship with maria and it's like, oh my god, they have the perfect marriage, which is close to a perfect marriage as you can have. It seems like they did have that, so that probably even like stoked the fire and the fuel. More so once maria dies, she's like, oh, oh, he, oh, he's going to be a great husband, but that's not the same man. That's not the same man.
Speaker 2:And honestly that means that I'm surprised he's got a line at the door of different women around the city. You know, quite honestly, Facts.
Speaker 1:Why do you think 2 John is not in a relationship, Like you see?
Speaker 2:2 John is a hoe. That wasn't clear.
Speaker 1:I mean he appears to get around.
Speaker 2:2 John dabbles in holotric. Now he has. He has morals and stuff like that and values in general sense, but I think he liked to run through women.
Speaker 1:So that was my next question. Like he's like noble and you know, always does the right thing, but and and then he's like telling, he's telling, uh, aldous, you need to get some leg exactly.
Speaker 2:But okay, okay. And then again that goes back to my other point about how men use women to heal. You know what I mean. So he's advising him to get into a woman. That's going to make everything all better. But also okay at the beginning, before even the tragedy. And why I say two John as a whole is because when you see, I'm going to stop calling him Elvis and call him by his character, I'm sorry when you see Cross and Maria together. And then 2 John is with that woman and he was like not too much, basically y'all doing too much, like she gonna fix something or what have you that scene? And then when he's talking to the pregnant woman and she's like you could be a good role model for my child and he was like if you let him with me, he gonna see some things. And she's like I'm hoping, so I'm, cause he's a Hulk.
Speaker 1:And everyone knows it. In that first scene the lady says see, the fire doesn't have to go out if you get married, meaning he's like I ain't trying to get married and so, yes, he may dabble in holotree, but I'm like why he may dabble in hollatry, but I'm like why, when you seem to have everything together in every other department you seem to be emotionally intelligent and loving and caring and capable. Why are you a hoe at this?
Speaker 2:big age. We've seen him do all that with another man. We've seen that in his relationship with friendship, men don't always see women as fully human.
Speaker 1:They can have a genuine friendship with the captain. You know what I mean. You can see like in that scene where she asks him to be the godfather, and even the scene where he has to go back and arrest her. He is very gentle, very loving you know what I'm saying very emotionally invulnerable. He seems as if he is capable of a mature adult relationship, but he may, just may, not want it. Like you said, he may want to dabble, dibble and dabble, hip and hop, and you know he has the pick of the litter. He's been successful. You know, handsome in a black city. He has the pick of the litter. He's been successful. You know, handsome in a, you know, in a, in a in a black city, he probably has the pick of the litter.
Speaker 1:What do you think about him? And Kayla? You know it was not my favorite thing. Um, it's so funny because I, before that, I swear, not too long before that scene, I said you know what, like this show is really beautiful and like very black and black love and black relationships. I was like man, this is really nice and I swear. You know he was like with Kayla and I was like no. Next thing, you know he was sleeping with Kayla and I was like no there's something nice.
Speaker 2:Even though we went in about him and Elle and why they shouldn't be together, there's still something nice about the imagery of seeing him with two beautiful black women it is two beautiful black women who are clearly black.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. And then to John, and then you see him really hesitant at the beginning with that black, black, identifiably black. You know what I mean. And then to John, and then you see him really hesitant at the beginning with that black, with the first, with the black woman that he's on the date with, with him and Cross, and then Kayla.
Speaker 1:Right. But here's the thing I will say that made me feel better. It was very obvious that it was like a hookup. It was not love For him, right, like, because, then like, you see, you think so, because then you, I see him like, flirting with, like Malika at the end now that, if we can get him over his holotree, I want him with Malika yes, I saw him flirting with Malika, so that made me feel like Kayla was not that serious for him, she has feelings for him, kayla has feelings for him.
Speaker 2:I think she does yeah, because why would she ask him? Well, you know, if you and Cross make up, what are you going to tell him about us? And he was like why would I tell him? And that's what I'm like. Yeah, that's too, john, I think she likes him.
Speaker 1:I think I just don't Trust her, because I guess I don't trust her and I feel like she's working an agenda and so I'm just like I didn't even see her having those level of feelings and emotions and to me I was more so Thinking that she was Saying that, as if Alex is going to look down on her and maybe it can affect their like professional relationship.
Speaker 2:No, I think she likes him. I don't mean I don't think it's like super she's not in love, but I think she wants more than just casual hookups. Maybe hopefully not. He curbed her so hard and that part I did like. And then, yeah, him and Malika. At the end I was like, oh, come on now. All we got to do is deliver you from this hollatry.
Speaker 1:I don't see it happening.
Speaker 2:No, I mean we got seasons. He has potential for character growth and development. We had to spend so much time on this first season in Cross's development. We had to spend so much time on this first season in Cross's development, we got room in the next season for other characters to develop. That is usually how it? Goes you focus a lot on the main character in the first season, or the main couple of characters, and then we really see more of the other character stories, usually in the subsequent seasons.
Speaker 1:Do you feel like they need to add more characters to the show?
Speaker 2:No, not one more. Not one more, with the exception of whoever's going to be the criminals next year.
Speaker 1:Okay, so who do you see next season as the main characters?
Speaker 2:Well Crossing 2. John, of course Right, and I need Nana Mama to recover. Did she recover? We didn't see her at the very end. She's not dead, but like she's still in the hospital, I could have sworn. We saw her at the end. I don't remember seeing her. I don't think she's at the table when everybody come to breakfast huh, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I have to look again. I thought.
Speaker 2:I saw her. She was still in the hospital, but either way she's going to recover because I'm not ready to lose her either. Let's see those two. I'd like to see more development from the detective. I think Sean, the Black female police detective I'd like to see. I don't want her to go away, I just want her to develop, I mean who else I don't know.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm saying. I think they need more characters. You think they need more. I think they do. I think well, because a lot, we're losing a lot of characters. We're losing the captain, we're losing the police chief. You know what I mean. Like I think, like, if you, because if we think about it, the show is mainly about him catching criminals. Like is Kayla, because technically Kayla works for the FBI. Is she still going to be hanging around?
Speaker 2:definitely, I'm sorry, kayla, she's definitely because that set up for what she's going to do with all that information and what's going to happen is too big of a set up immediately, like that fast, like next season. I thought that was a set up for next season.
Speaker 1:I don't know, so I don't know if it's going to pay off immediately. I like his character is entertaining. I still don't fully understand his relationship with Ramsey, in a sense that I understand that Ramsey pays him to do stuff for him, but how do they get connected, like they are so different and I know Ramsey has his fingers in a lot of pots and stuff like that, but it was just like I'm just like wait a minute, who is this random henchman?
Speaker 2:I would like to see more of Bobby Trey's story. I watched it twice and I was like, okay, I done made up a military background for him that I don't think exists.
Speaker 2:But he's an ex-cop. I know he's an ex-cop for him that I don't think exists, but he's an ex-cop. I know he's an ex-cop, but I'm like. But ex-cop doesn't mean you know how to use a sniper rifle, you know. That's very true, I'm like. I'm like because I'm like trying to figure out how he got to where he got to. I know he's an ex-cop. I know like they had to kick him off the force or something. Never told us why he got.
Speaker 1:Or how he met Ramsey. How long has he known Ramsey? How long has he been doing stuff for Ramsey? Ramsey has been on this journey for 28 years. I don't know.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you where I think his backstory is that I made up for myself I think he's ex-military. Whatever that was that made you value. Life and death got severed for him in something in the military, and that's why he is so now. It's all about the money. The only thing he cares about is his dog and money.
Speaker 1:He does love that dog. He's also so wild. Like when he's in the hotel room and he's doing all the drugs and he's drinking and like I'm like this man is so unstable but I need like a prequel movie about him and Red Ramsey Backstory about Bobby Trey.
Speaker 2:I mean need like a prequel movie about him and Ed Ramsey backstory about Bobby Trey. I mean we can throw in how he met Ramsey too, but I need to know.
Speaker 1:I know yeah because I'm like, okay, how long has he been doing stuff? And is it just him doing stuff, just in DC, or does he go around as, like Ed Ramsey has been going around and doing stuff, helping him with stuff? You know what I mean? Because, like Bobby Trey, because he's Black and he looks a certain way, he's able to be in DC in the midst of the more urban areas and he doesn't stand out, he doesn't stand out and I personally think, because of how strong his accent is and the way he presents, people think that he is stupid.
Speaker 2:I'm like Bobby Trey is not dumb. I'm like Bobby Trey is not dumb, I'm like he's mentally unstable, but he is incredibly intelligent and I think that for that reason, people underestimate him.
Speaker 1:Yes, I agree. No, he's not dumb by a long shot. He found that girl faster than anybody.
Speaker 2:Found the girl, found Tabio, like made connections and I'm like, and he does recognize Cross's intelligence and he was trying to tell Ramsey, but you know Ramsey's still a white man and so you know he couldn't see it. He was like listen, this ain't, if you're gonna go you gotta go toe to toe.
Speaker 1:You can't play with this man, right right, he didn't hear it so, yeah, my question is I'm like okay, so like, was he just helping him with this DC part or has he been helping him? And the amount of people who know what ramsey is up to and are like okay, that's cool, is mind-blowing, because normally when you think of serial killers, there is very much they work alone or you know, like I think there's been times where maybe, like they work in tandem. You know, actually I think those may have been movies, I don't know if I know a real example of real life of serial killers working with all the people, like the large scale people who've been getting arrested for these things.
Speaker 2:I know it's not serial killer, it's other. It's other kind of indiscretions that they've been doing for a long time, and the fact that he is a politician and very connected to people of power is it. Is it really? You know what I mean? It's an open secret, like there's a lot of open secrets that have come out this past year.
Speaker 1:I think what I I think what's weird is the amount of people who admire him, so like the plastic surgeon lady, and then the other guy Buckley, who planned like, who pledged that money to the foundation, and Ed Rims is like, is like, oh yeah, he's just like me and I'm just like how y'all finding each other? Is there a red group? Or like what? How are y'all, how are y'all linking up? You know what I mean. Like these, all these high power, these are all high power, high, you know, financial people, but they all have like this sick mindset. Yeah, when she was, when that plastic surgeon was fixing that woman's face, I'm like in the detail in which she was explaining to Chrissy, it was chilling.
Speaker 2:And that's the thing. And then I was like she played innocent, frail kind of woman to get over her cross and I'm like it is so obvious that she did all this. I'm like girl and I'm like is like so obvious that she I'm like girl and I'm like if that had been a woman she wouldn't have fallen for that. Only because he was a man, that he was like, oh, I'm going to protect you, damn.
Speaker 1:going to the press she stuck in with that hypodermic needle and was like Ramsey, won't let me kill you, or else you would be out.
Speaker 1:Right, if it was up to me right, she was like I don't, I don't even play, I would leave you dead on my office floor. And then she just got up and left and the way she was sitting in that chair, like a recliner, like she's like watching TV, like acting like she's watching TV as she's watching Ramsey torture this woman, she looked like she needed a book of popcorn. She's sick. That's scary. Like stuff like that is is is very, it's very scary. Like, yes, you have, they find each other even in real life. Honestly, it's like one thing, yes, we have a serial killer, but someone else who can sit and watch it, I don't know, it's very creepy.
Speaker 2:Like the Buckley guy, like he's like, yeah, you know, he's just like me and you know, I don't know, I'm like, oh my god, there's like a network on my nerves too, because I was like I wouldn't even want his money the way he's talking to me, like there's so many times I would have walked out that party yes yes yes, yes, it was very much condescending, you know, but I feel like that.
Speaker 1:You end up in those situations, though, when there's that imbalance of power and people are used to being treated a certain way, like if you don't give them the deference they feel like is due, they'll try to take it. You know so. But did we talk about everything, girl? I don't even know my last episode on cross. I feel like we we covered it all. I'm looking forward to season two. I want to see what's going to happen. Um, of course, I'm interested in what criminal they're going to be chasing, but I really want to see where they're going to go. Go with the personal development of characters Me too, because you know Kross is in therapy now. So what happens now? Like you know what's going to tug at our heartstrings? Because this season, man, it was like, yes, it was a thrilling season, but for me, the ride was an emotional one, more so than like a thrilling suspenseful ride. It was an emotional roller more so than like a thrilling suspenseful ride. It was an emotional rollercoaster for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah great same, yeah, absolutely enjoyable one oh yeah, very enjoyable, looking forward to a season two. They're filming supercell season two, so I'm very excited about that. I really hope we get more than six episodes UKTV. They know they can make a short season. I have seen four episode seasons Like, guys, come on, what are we doing? I need more. I need more. They're always good though. They have quality TV. But yeah, I'm excited. But hey guys, thank you so much for sticking it out with us. I hope you really enjoyed our analysis, our breakdown. If there are shows that you're interested in us reviewing, old or new, let us know. We'll be happy to add them. And if there's anything else that you're interested, if you want us to do a movie, you know, just let us know. What do you guys want?