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• Niq & Jess • Episode 9

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What happens when storytelling leans on ethnic villain tropes that strip characters of depth? Join us as we unravel the layers of "Average Joe" and its portrayal of Russians as antagonists. We dissect the clichéd character of Nicolai, the one-dimensional villain with a backstory that’s ripe with missed opportunities. Even the "hit bitch," with her coerced assassin role and obscure robotic persona, spark discussions about the placement of complex characters in otherwise realistic settings. Frustration mounts as these narratives persist, illustrating a need for more nuanced storytelling.

Family loyalty and revenge are at the heart of our next discussion. We explore the morally ambiguous character of Demetri, who grapples with his father's sinister legacy yet lacks the brutal edge to lead a crime family. The narrative could have been enriched by weaving characters like Joe and Demetri in a web of shared family-driven motivations. We also critique Pam, the high-ranking detective whose flat characterization and singular quest against Nicolai overshadow her potential for depth. Her relationship with her imprisoned mother is a lost chance for complexity, reminding us of the need for characters that transcend cultural stereotypes.

In a lighter yet insightful twist, we humorously discuss the chaos of Teddy's scavenger hunt gone wrong, where Kathy unearths heroin instead of cash. Teddy's bewildering inheritance decision and Kathy’s ill-advised local drug dealings offer a mix of comedic relief and critical analysis on crime strategy. The tension peaks as Kathy’s ill-fated drug deal with an undercover cop escalates, leading to a volatile showdown with Russian gangsters. As the fallout unfolds, Joe's family fractures, leaving us pondering the emotional wreckage and personal stakes entwined in this gripping narrative.

Contact Niq & Jess

Niq:

Hi guys, welcome back for our next episode. I'm your host, nick, and I'm Jess, and today we're going to do our final breakdown on Average Joe. I'm really excited. I've really enjoyed these conversations. How about you? Me too? Me too, it was pretty good. So, as I kind of teased in our last episode, I want to start with the ethnic villain trope that this show has. For example, this show it's Russians. A lot of times you will see Arabs as the perpetual evil bad guy. As much as I love this show, it's annoying. It's annoying for me because you're either the main big bad, where you're like this irredeemable person, or like you're like a nameless henchman, like with no agency, you know. And now this show they did give like the the big bad and like an evil sidekick. Which is what did they call her in the show?

Niq:

million or hit bitch because I referred to her as hit bitch yeah, they like. So it's like a this woman who's like an assassin spy, you know person and and so she has a little bit more of a backstory. He actually, yeah, he, he coerced. He coerced her into working for him because it found out when she worked for him initially she was pregnant and she wanted to retire and I personally feel like he arranged it. But they don't verify that.

Jess:

I feel like he arranged that whole situation with the car pulling up so that he could have an excuse to take her baby. I agree, yeah, pulling up, and so that he can have an excuse to take her baby, I agree.

Niq:

Yeah, so he, she was very, very pregnant and during her last mission and she ends up getting her in the hospital and when she wakes up he tells her that her baby is dead. You find out years later that he actually had kidnapped the child and so now he's dangling this child over her head to get her to do whatever you know he wants and her head to get her to do whatever you know he wants. And you know I, even though they gave her a backstory and I feel like they gave her more redeeming qualities, like they kind of made her like a. She reminds me of like what? What is the? The movie with the robots? Um, arnold schwarzenegger terminator? Yes, like she has a Terminator esque quality, which kind of?

Niq:

Everything else in the show is like so realistic, but she is like so robotic. Even her movements are robotic. Yes, like no one can beat her. She can hit every shot. Like you know what I'm saying. And it felt a little out of place in this show where everything else was very much grounded in reality. Um, although I enjoyed her scenes, mainly I enjoyed the characters reacting to her, because these are not criminals doing criminal stuff and like she's like, as they refer to her, hit ditch, like she's doing everything she can fight, she's beating them up, she's shooting at them, she's shot several of them at some point in time, and so they're like what are we supposed? How do we fight her? Like we can't go up against her? Um, and yes, they gave the big bad a bad, a backstory, but I didn't like it.

Niq:

But you know what I'm like what? Because it was like the back story is his father was essentially an animal and he abused him so much that he turned him into an animal. And I just think that that's just so. One note, you know, like, and when I tell you like they made the big bad like irredeemable, they, they have this man kill his wife for grieving too much over their son. Now he starts an entire war, going after and killing any and everybody he can associated with his son's death. But he kills his wife for crying too much. Yeah, he does.

Niq:

And I just feel like like we, they could have given like so much more nuance, so much more depth to the villain, and I think it would have like just made the show that much more interesting, you know, and I just think that that was for me a missed opportunity. But usually when there's the, the ethnic, other disposable. You know it usually happens like that, but I just feel like that is lazy writing in a show that had been so excellent in every other like way of character development and writing. I really felt like they got lazy when it came to the villain I I do agree with you.

Jess:

I I do agree with you and I know I just recommended that it's one of the Russians instead of Touch at the end of the last episode and I still feel that way. But I do agree with you that it is kind of like just that trope and that happens a lot in American TV. I think Russians get scapegoated for a lot and, like you know this, get scapegoated for a lot and, like you know, this cold war ain't never really in um, so like, yeah, they don't have any kind of character, they, they're just like these invincible beings that you know need to be dealt with or whatever. Um, and I agree it has a lot of elements of that um, nicolai's story, his backstory. I think he, I think, I think he is supposed to be a sociopath in this, like like there, he has no feelings, no empathy, no, no, no anything.

Jess:

Um, and so and I even see him avenging his death at the son's death as not about his care for his son. There's nothing that suggests he loves or cares for his son. Right, like you offended me, you took my toy. Right, you offended me, so I me. So now I have to punish you because you dared to cross me Feeling the wife is crazy.

Niq:

That was. I said, wait a minute.

Jess:

She's crying too loud because she blames you, because it is your fault, because again you are the head of this huge crime syndicate. Demetri is super cute. He's this attractive, attractive, pretty, smart guy. Send this boy to college or modeling or something right put him in this, and dimitri is not about that life he's not it what.

Niq:

He's not his father. I will say that he was. He had no problem disrespecting his daughter when he was beating and torturing Joe. So he's not at the level that his father is, but I don't know that I necessarily feel like he's a good guy?

Jess:

I don't feel like he's a good guy. I just also don't think that Demetri is a good guy and I do think he was using the daughter. I don't think that Dimitri is a good guy and I do think he was using the daughter. I don't think that he loved the daughter. I don't think any of that. He was absolutely using her and calculating cold. I still don't think he has what it takes to run a crime family one day, I agree, but I think his father also felt like that. Yeah agreed.

Niq:

His father didn't respect him either and he didn't think he had what it takes. I, his father didn't respect him either and he didn't think he he had what it takes. I just, I don't know, because this is the thing. Like you know, you have joe, who is someone who would do anything for his family. Is how he's poised in the show. I have my opinions, but he's the character. His character is poised in the show as someone who would do anything for his family. Imagine if they had the villain poised the same way where he would do anything for his family. Imagine if they had the villain poised the same way where he would do anything for his family. And yet they're coming up against each other because their goals don't align. But how interesting would it have been if they were both just fighting for their families.

Jess:

You know what I mean. No, no, that would have been a more interesting. There's some reason why he had to go into this route of crime to get his family out. Maybe he tried not to get Demetri involved and Demetri got involved he didn't tell him to go Because he wants to prove that he's just as good as his dad or whatever. But really he's supposed to be away in America at college or something like that, exactly there, dad or whatever, and but really you know he's supposed to be away in America at college or something like that.

Niq:

Yeah, exactly, there was space, but I feel like the Russian sociopath is the easy way out, you know, and so that that was the thing that most I'm like. You know what that was a missed opportunity. The show is still good, the show is still enjoyable, but, like you know, let's take notes for future endeavors. Let's get beyond othering, different ethnicities and making their stories so flat. I agree, I agree, and so, with that flat characters, I want to talk about somebody that we have not actually touched on at all. So I want to talk about police officer. Her name is pam, and so she's actually bought in pretty early in the story, because once the head dimitri's head is found in the golf, um golf course, she comes down because she's actually hunting Dimitri. No, not Dimitri.

Jess:

Nikolai, he's actually hunting.

Niq:

Nikolai and she's been trying to take down his organization. So she gets involved in the investigation and you find out that Pam and Touch actually went to police academy together, so they've been police officers the same time, and she is like a high ranking state detective and Touch is, as he refers to himself, a desk jockey. So they are actually foils for each other. But I personally, as much as I don't respect Touch as a cop, I don't respect Pam as a cop either. What do you think about Pam?

Jess:

Pam absolutely gets on my nerves. So for a few reasons, so one, she's a little flat as a character. I think the idea behind it is that Pam's mother got involved with Nikolai and ended up killing her partners in jail. Pam is trying to prove that her mom is innocent. Her mom is not innocent, but either way, pam believes that she is and has been trying to go after Nikolai for years in order to get her mom out of jail. She's so one-sided about everything it's almost ridiculous, you know.

Jess:

So like there's a few different scenes, and I like the way that they, joe, handled it. But like there's one scene, and it's kind of towards the end, where she's now kind of working with them and she's looking for Nikolai, and I think it's the one where he finally finds the wife, maybe, but anyway, in the midst he's got his wife in his hands. I believe the wife is sick and she's in the flare up. He's not sure if she's going to make it or what have you. And Pam is yelling over his shoulder where's Nikolai? And he cusses back at her in a way that I'm like, of course, because are you?

Niq:

are you read the room room right? This is not the time.

Jess:

This is not the time. This is not to me. She has a lot of moments like that where it's like, yes, I get it, getting Nikolai is important, but do you, are you missing the complete human aspect of what's going on in this moment?

Niq:

absolutely like she. She's been like chasing Nikolai for 10 years. Her mom's been in prison for 10 years and, like her mom, going to prison has hurt her reputation. She's still doing way better than touching her career. But people kind of because her mom was a dirty cop, people kind of make like nasty comments and she doesn't get the respect that she deserves. So I can understand if she had a little chip on her shoulder, like I understand. But I agree with you, like they somehow drained all the humanity out of that character. She is very one note very flat when she she goes to the prison to visit her mother and the way that they talk to each other is crazy.

Jess:

I like like the mom better than I like Pam.

Niq:

The mom is so like vicious to her and keeps telling her to drop it and leave her alone. Now you find out, like later on, that Nikolai has threatened the daughter's life and that's why the mom like took the fall and killed her partner. And that's why the mom is like in prison and she'll tell everybody what she did, Like she's actually doing it to protect her daughter. Her daughter will not leave it alone. Her mom is like can't you go and get like have a baby, get a relationship like live your life? Why are you worried about?

Jess:

getting divorced, I don't care. And this is the thing. No-transcript get out of prison, which I think she low-key don't?

Niq:

she seems a little happy in there. She's never a girlfriend, I don't know.

Jess:

She seems really happy in prison. The only thing she doesn't want to do is like she doesn't like Pam coming up there, because then people accuse her of being a stitch. The mom does not want to fight bitches every day, Every time you come up here. I got to spend three days fighting bitches. The mom don't want to fight bitches. But outside of that prison is cool.

Niq:

She's cool, she's very cool.

Jess:

So leave your mom alone. She don't want to be bothered. And I'm like at some point, like when are you gonna realize that your mom you know, like you don't mean like she does not want you to look into this any further, and nothing clicks, that there's something there as to why she doesn't want you to look, look in there any further. I don't know.

Niq:

Pam is frustrating to me she is, but this is what annoys me. So pam says you know she wants her mom to be free, but that's not really what she wants she wants her mom to be exonerated. She wants to take down nicolai's organization to prove that her mom is not guilty, because she is actually offered. The governor offers to free her mom if she will leave Nikolai alone, and she's like no, no.

Jess:

I that crazy work, crazy. You've spent 10 years of your life at least trying to get your mom out of jail, supposedly. And so I don't even think that it's about exoneration. I think she wants revenge and I think she so wants revenge on Nikolai. Nothing else matters. Like saying, oh, I want my mom exonerated, oh, I want my mom out of jail is the vehicle. It sounds good, but really what she wanted is revenge because I think she, low-key, was pissed off that she did not get to kill Nikolai. That's why she shot him anyway after he was already dead that one bit. And then I think it was Touch. She said do you feel better? And she was like kind of do? She wanted revenge. And she so wanted revenge, so bad it blinded everything else Because she could have binged her mom out of jail.

Niq:

When Touch looked at her and said why wouldn't you get your mom out? Like, are you crazy? You know what I'm saying, because any normal person you give that scenario to Touch is another police officer. Now, he's not the most moral officer but, I'm sorry, but even her boss.

Niq:

Even her boss was like like girl, do what he's doing, get your mama out and mind your business. Like that is the governor. And she's just like no, I can't break my morals. But then she, like in the quest of Nikolai, she tortures, like the guy that was injured, like you really don't have morals, like you said, she's on a quest for revenge and I just think that once again, that's a mis- morality, but it's not because, like no, you killed somebody in the line of duty.

Jess:

Yes, touch has addiction issues, but you are torturing him by withholding drugs that you know he doesn't need. He didn't go through withdrawals by choice. He went through it by force out of you trying to get information out of him.

Niq:

I feel like she was kidnapping. I know they were at his house, but I feel like she kidnapped him to keep him locked up and dangle the drugs in front of his face and watch him go through like withdrawal, like that is disgusting.

Jess:

I'm sorry, that is. That is yeah, absolutely so. Again, she tries to frame it in this morality and I'm the good cop, and I'm the only good cop, and he's everybody else's bad cops. But no, you do a lot of stuff that is not by the book. When it suits you, when you think it's going to get you closer to Nikolai, you're perfectly fine with doing things off the book. The only thing you wouldn't do was get your mom out of jail, and that's still not going to get at Nikolai, who you really wanted to get at. You want revenge.

Niq:

I was very disappointed in how one note her character was because, once again, like there was opportunity for nuance, you know, there was opportunity to add some sort of balance in there. You know, like that, that could have been like a really interesting character, you know what I mean. But once it was, it was she was. She was very, very, very wonderful, which is interesting because, like kathy, angela and is her name jennifer, yeah, they actually have like more depth. Even whiny angela has like is a well-written character. She's just a character I don't enjoy.

Jess:

Same thing I feel like. Feel like Jennifer is also well-written. She just gets on my nerves, but there's a reason. It makes sense within the context of the story, right?

Niq:

So it's like, okay, you, actually you can do good female characters. You know what I mean. Just like the same way, I feel like they didn't do a good job writing Dimitri, but they've written, they have so many well-written characters. I just like sometimes I I don't know if it's just, if it's just, they just get tired or what. You know what I mean. But like there there are some. Those are, those are two misses. If they would have did a better job on Pam and Dimitri. I mean I keep calling him Dimitri and Nikolai.

Niq:

I would let. I would let it go. I would let hit bitch go as being like the female robocop in this very down-to-earth story. You know like, but I just like those. Those are. Those were two. They were two misses and like Pam was getting on my nerves because she was a lot of times in the way and making things harder for them when they already had enough going on. They're trying to find this money, do this World's Worst Scavenger Hunt, and they're trying to fight the Russians and she's just there making things more difficult. She did not help, but also not getting at her level either.

Jess:

Right, you are just a problem. She did not help solve the problem. Right, you are just a problem she is.

Niq:

I'm like you did not solve any crimes.

Jess:

No, no, no crimes were solved by you. You got close, you danced around a lot of stuff, but you never got to it.

Niq:

Think about this If she was completely removed from the story, story nothing changes. Nothing changes if things are actually a little bit easier for our, our faves, like she honestly did not bring that much to the story, that's true, but her mama, I did like her mama, that's true, but her mama.

Jess:

I did like her mama. Her mom was funny.

Niq:

Her mom was hilarious. She was funny because I've just like, once again, it was not as bad.

Jess:

It was like a funny character, but she was funny to me.

Niq:

I don't think it was. You know, black people have weird senses of humor, so she probably was supposed to be funny because to me, like the way that, like that lady was cussing at Touch was the same like viciousness, in which she talked to her daughter but her like, but then it's like her daughter, like has such an angry voice, like that's once again one note you think like you're at the jail and you're talking to your mom and you think, and you would think that she would talk with emotion, she's talking to her like a cop, she Right, that's what I'm saying. Like that's not realistic, even if your mom is being bitchy. We've all experienced it Like you, like you don't. That's not how you talk to your mom.

Jess:

You don't talk to your mama like that. Um, yeah, I just want her mama to live her dream of being able to go get her hair and nails done in jail and not have to fight bitches, cause that's all she want.

Niq:

I don't think if they would have opened the gates, the mom would leave. The mom just needs to take the daughter off of her visitation list and she can go and live her best life. Just like hey, put a little money on my book so I can get my commentary Enough for me and my girlfriend and I can keep my hair done Like she is chilling. But you know, like Black moms we go through a lot. So maybe this 10 years in prison was like a vacation for her. She ain't paying out one bill, that's true. She's chilling. She, she barely. Probably in there she might have got her like a little lightweight job, but she, it may actually be like a vacation, because imagine raising that girl. Oh god, oh god, she might have needed that vacation, okay, you know what.

Jess:

Yeah, I think on um kevin can F himself. You side it with the evil mom character. On this one I like the evil mom character. The woman don't ask she not ask it for much, she not just leave, just, please, just leave me alone.

Niq:

So I want to kind of talk about I know we touched on it earlier, but I want to kind of talk about I know we touched on it earlier, but I want to kind of finish the talk about Teddy's scavenger hunt, which is Joe's father, and I want to talk about where I feel like Kathy failed. Okay, because Kathy is, you know, our favorite character and she is the character who is the most accomplished. But we're going to see it. We see her take an l towards the end of the show. So, once again, getting back to teddy is the world's worst scavenger hunt person creator scavenger right.

Niq:

So so far, like, they've found the one hundred thousand dollars. They found the key that led them to the Lambo, and then Kathy figured out that the license plate led to Joe's address, and so Joe ends up finding a million dollars hidden in a deer's head, very random, which he turns into a weapon to kill another Russian person, and so at this point there's still nine million dollars that's unaccounted for, um, and so everybody is, kind of like, primarily focused on getting jennifer back, because at this point jennifer has given herself over to the russian person because she's pregnant and she thinks that he won't kill her because she's having Dimitri's baby, and so everybody's focused on rescuing Jennifer. But Leon like I love that little speech that he gives Kathy where he's like you know what if anyone can find the money?

Jess:

Oh, me too. I don't think Kathy can find the money Humble. You know you got this.

Niq:

And so Kathy uses her true crime knowledge and says you know what, when I don't know what to do, start at the beginning. And so she starts at the beginning, and I couldn't follow the clues, but apparently she did. And she finds that there's a cabin that Teddy has, and in the cabin she finds the mother load. Now you would think it would be money, right. But because once again Teddy is the worst scavenger hunt person, he decides to leave his son, who is a plumber, who leads a very normal life. He decides to leave him tons and tons and tons of heroin. I was so irritated.

Niq:

That's an inheritance for you I was so irritated because I'm like okay, once again, is this scavenger hunt to help him? Is this to make joe's life better? Because why in the world would you convert this money into heroin, knowing that that is not joe's lifestyle?

Jess:

no well, okay, the only thing I can say with that? The only thing is that we do find out that teddy's death was an accident, like he accidentally burned into a fire. Maybe he thought he had more time, maybe the plan was to convert it into money and he never got the opportunity. But yeah, I agree, the heroin sucks terrible, because this is my thing.

Niq:

If you wanted to do that, why not convert it? As you get it back into money? You just have tons like how long would it have taken him to get rid of all of this heroin? Like it's a lot of heroin, guys, it's a crazy amount of heroin. So Kathy finds the drugs and I think it's hilarious because she does not tell Joe or Touch or anybody else. But Leon Didn't tell them about selling the.

Jess:

Lambo either. They also got the 50K on Lambo, which I agree with. At this point you need some more compensation than you were getting.

Niq:

Absolutely, and it makes sense to sell the car to a chop shop. I don't understand why they were like let's dunk the water?

Jess:

No, it's going to be questions. And then the car is registered to your address Again. That's why you don't let men do crimes alone.

Niq:

So, yes, kathy did, she made $50,000 for her and Leon selling the Lambo and she finds the heroin and she, she, she doesn't tell anybody, but Leon. Now this is where I feel like Kathy starts taking an L, because I'm going to. This is something I have. I said earlier. Okay, why are you doing crimes in your hometown? You all of a sudden have decided that you're going to start selling the, the heroin. Now she's trying to to be a supplier, so she's trying to sell big amounts. But why are you doing this in your hometown? Why not go further? Like once again, this is bad criminal activity.

Jess:

It is you also ask one person that you think is addicted to try it, and then tell you who. You did no research on this person, which is like if he's that big of a of a drug dealer, he will be known in that community. You didn't ask nobody else, you didn't you know, and so you end up with an undercover cop, unfortunately she does.

Niq:

But before she, even before we find out that the person she's trying to sell drugs to is an undercover cop, she has the meeting with who she thinks is a drug kingpin and she's really out of her depth. She really doesn't know, like, what to do and you can kind of see it like she doesn't have the confidence. I'm not even sure the price that she's getting is the right price. But more importantly, she had to actually do drugs, like the. The kingpin made her do drugs, and that for me was terrifying, watching her be under the influence and walking around and not knowing what's going on. Like that was so scary.

Jess:

Every interaction with her and the kingpin in the car had me on edge. And again this is gonna be because I'm a woman and I'm just like the the possibility of rape is ever present and so, while that's never a thing in the show like we never get uh, thank god we never have a scene like that but the whole time in the car I was like he's made her do drugs. He could do whatever he wanted her, and I'm terrified you know, not just him, though.

Niq:

When she leaves his car, she's still heavily intoxicated under the influence of drugs and she's just walking the streets, and she could have easily been taken advantage of by anybody, and so, like that was, like that's what I, that would have been it for me.

Jess:

Well, while I get why she didn't tell she hasn't told um the joe and them yet, I think she eventually they do tell him. But, um, well, I get why she didn't tell she hasn't told Joe and them yet. I think she eventually they do tell them. But I get why they haven't told them yet and they're still kind of figuring out Because, yeah, kathy and Leon are still like okay, but we still got to take care of home first, which I get. I still feel like a man should have done that.

Niq:

Yes, not just one man either. I feel like that should have been like two men. To me that's a group project. She didn't try to run out and do it so fast and do it on her own. That should have been. She should have waited until they finished the situation with the Russian, see how that situation ended and then, as a group, they should have tried to tackle this like I don't understand why she was moving so fast yeah, I guess I don't either.

Jess:

Maybe just because everything is so heightened and you're trying to get the money and get out and do something, because they're also trying to run. The Russians have been closing in on them. They've killed Winnie and Stan in the house. You know what I mean. Like so much stuff is going on. So maybe that's the height. Let's get some money so that we can get out of here, because I think they're going to talk about running a few times.

Niq:

They have $400,000 at this point, though she has more than that actually.

Jess:

No, they got $400,000. Everybody don't have $400,000.

Niq:

Actually she does, because their share of the million was $333,000.

Jess:

They got $50,000 for the Lambo in the initial $20,000.

Niq:

You know where the drugs are. You have $400,000. You can go somewhere lay low.

Jess:

Nobody knows where that is. I'm like like just the situation with and it's not because kathy is, of course, clear to me. She is the most capable person in the entire show. She is my um also, um, my favorite character, and I think she's really good for the most part. But I'm like you're talking about dealing with drug dealers and gangsters, and these are men and you know like they already. I feel like like he didn't give you a good price because he didn't respect you, because you're a woman, you know what I mean and then he's got the physical strength and guns so he can like what you gonna do if I don't give you you know what I mean like there's absolutely nothing. That's why I feel like you should have had some men go up there also.

Niq:

Touch is a police officer. He would know who the drug dealers are in the city. He would be able to do. It would be more reliable, like I just like. That to me was a huge L. And so, because she rushed out and rushed ahead, the kingpin that she made a deal with turns out to be an undercover cop and he ends up getting shot. Does Leon shoot or does Kathy shoot? Which one of them shoot him? Leon? Leon shoots an undercover cop and that's actually where the season ends and I'm just like, oh Lord, where are we going from here?

Niq:

Right, and so I see if that shit also better be alive Because she got shot.

Jess:

I can't do this without her next season. Y'all gonna figure it out.

Niq:

I see where they're going for next season, Like okay, well, the Russian situation.

Jess:

We gotta deal with the drugs.

Niq:

I get it, but I hate that they used Kathy because to me she had been really good and really strategic.

Jess:

She's good at murder. She's not good at drugs. Just because you're good at one set of crimes doesn't mean you're good at all the sets of crimes.

Niq:

Yeah, that's so true. So, yeah, she, that was a major, major L, but it there's a lot of like meat for next season, because we so, at the end of the season, angela, who is joe's wife, and his daughter jennifer, they have left, and they left joe a note basically saying you didn't choose us, you didn't keep us safe, and so now we're going to leave and be safe on our own. I have my feelings about that, but you know, whatever um, we don't know if touch has killed himself. All we know is that he was suicidal and the gun went off. Um, and then leon and kathy have this drug deal. That has gone as bad as it can go. What is interesting, though, is I'm surprised that he did not have backup with him. Who the?

Jess:

undercover officer.

Niq:

I feel like if he was going to make a buy, he had already met with her and she had already did the drugs, so he knew that she had some amount of drugs. I was really surprised that when they met up, if he was an undercover cop, why? Why were there not, like other cops, waiting right? So that was interesting to me. Yeah, I don't understand that. I mean, I don't know, I've never worked in vice, but I've watched a lot of shows where I've seen undercover drug operations. I'm just saying that that that's interesting. So I I really hope they get a second season. I really do.

Jess:

So from what the research I did today, it looks like they are going to get a second season. They should be filming now and possibly release um summer of 2025 oh, that's excellent, that's excellent.

Niq:

I look forward uh me too to uh reviewing it, yeah, so, yeah, I'm really I think that having like the big bad, be like the cops this season, oh that would be good. Yeah, it would be good, because it's like there's so many ways that they can go with that, because it's like, are all the cops righteous, or some of them you?

Jess:

know what I'm like.

Niq:

There's a lot that can be. There's a lot there that they can do and I think already, like the, the thing that I had the biggest issue with which was, like the russian villain trope it's gone, yeah, no, never to have to come back again. You know so like I like that fact, you know. Although, when there's a large amount of drugs, that puts a bull's eye on you, so they may have more than just cops coming after them. If people find out how many drugs they have, right like it, they, they have space and they have opportunities.

Niq:

So I'm very excited that they're going to get another season.

Jess:

Real quick. It made me think of something when you just said with the cop not having backup, then is he a dirty cop. You know what I mean. Is that why you don't have backup?

Niq:

That's very true. I've seen in other shows where cops get undercover and they start to like the life too much.

Jess:

They start to actually use drugs and then they get caught up. That was not his first time doing heroin.

Niq:

That was not his first time you know I'm not a drug person period, but like to see like the way that they like depicted her being high.

Jess:

I'm like, oh, my nightmare, like it's just like, oh my god, yeah, that was one of the times too that I was most scared. I was so. And then when she encounters the police afterwards and I'm like, oh god, no, no, yeah, I was so scared for her. So many different times I was like, please, just let her get home, please, please let her get home, leon, come get her something in Kathy we trust, but yeah, she's not the.

Niq:

Somebody needs to take the reins next season and I feel like it should be Pat. She's not. She's not. That makes no sense Touched to be here with something you know Kathy does the murders.

Jess:

Touched does the drug running. Yeah, that makes sense. Oh, we can have Dirty Cop versus Dirty Cop. There's a lot of things that can go, yeah yeah, yeah, there's definitely potential.

Niq:

I'm so excited because so often we fall in love with the show and then they kill it.

Jess:

Like I said, it looks like everything that I read suggested that it's going to be a second season coming out June 2025. You know how Hollywood is? You never know, but I'm hoping and believing that I hope they record right this minute yes, I agree.

Niq:

Wow, we're done with Average Joe. Like that's so enjoyable, like I really enjoyed myself. I hope you guys enjoyed yourself. I hope you guys will look out for our next episode. We'll talk to you later. Bye.