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Average Black Funeral

• Niq & Jess • Episode 7

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What happens when a Pittsburgh plumber stumbles into a $10 million mystery entangled with the Russian mob? Join us as we unravel the adventurous and chaotic world of "Average Joe." We explore how Dion Cole's remarkable transition from comedy to drama breathes life into Joe's character, making it a must-watch for those who appreciate crime dramas with a comedic twist. Expect to question the choices made by Joe and his family as they navigate a maze of self-defense killings, mob entanglements, and absurd antics in a small town.

Could you stay in a dangerous town while tangled with the Russian mafia, or would you bolt at the first sign of trouble? Joe and his friends grapple with this dilemma, as the men stubbornly refuse to leave and the women yearn for safety. Listen in as we debate the gang's comedy of errors, with Kathy emerging as the surprising hero amidst the chaos. Her true crime enthusiasm becomes their saving grace, but only just. As Joe's daughter's loyalty to her mobster boyfriend adds layers of tension, we explore the intricacies of family dynamics under duress.

The journey to unearth Joe's father's $10 million legacy is as convoluted as it is thrilling. From bizarre scavenger hunts involving Lamborghinis to a trail of unfortunate criminal mishaps, we highlight the blend of humor and danger that defines their quest. Each choice carries moral weight, raising profound questions about the cost of their pursuit. As the body count rises, we reflect on the unique appeal of "Average Joe" and its fresh perspective on storytelling in the crime drama genre, all while enjoying a few laughs along the way.

Contact Niq & Jess

Niq:

Hi guys, welcome to our next episode. I'm your host, nick, and.

Jess:

I'm Jess.

Niq:

And today we're going to be talking about Average Joe. The show actually started out on BET Plus and now you can currently find it on Netflix. So, Jess, can you give us a synopsis of the show? Yeah, so.

Jess:

Average. Joe is about a regular guy, a plumber from Pittsburgh, who is trying to basically grieve the loss of his father. It starts off at the father's funeral at his home and he ends up finding out a lot of information about his dad after he dies. He finds out his dad had a whole secret, double life. He has apparently been running drugs for the Russian mob and has stolen, I want to say, $10 million from them and a Lambo and a Lambo and a Lambo Don't forget the Lambo. And so the show takes place with basically Joe finding out that information, then him, his friends and his family kind of going through all these different antics and all these different things, trying to both find the money and deal with the Russian mafia. So it's incredibly entertaining, fun ride. I really enjoyed the show.

Niq:

And so one of the things that we talked about when we were discussing the show is the quality of the show. So it's a BET Plus show but honestly, it can stand up against any network show Absolutely. The production writing like they really did an excellent job with this show.

Jess:

Completely agreed. That was one of the things I was so excited about, because I end up you know I don't at this point I really don't watch BET that often anymore Because to me the quality of the shows have come down a lot since way back in the day when Bob Johnson still owned it. So I ended up just watching this show because I think my mom wanted to watch it, and so I sat down with her and watched that and a few other shows on BET and I was really pleasantly surprised at how well the show was. I was like hold on. First of all, these are real cameras. Y'all use real cameras. It doesn't look like it was shot in somebody's basement. This is this. It looks so good. The people look good in the show. Oh my goodness. So I was.

Jess:

I was already taken in by that I was like, ok, let's do this, let's watch this, and then you get really pulled in really quickly to the storyline and following just all the ups and downs that that goes. So I was really, really pleased with this one the ups and downs that that goes.

Niq:

So I was really, really pleased with this one. So the show stars, uh, dion cole, and I honestly think that he did a great job. Honestly, I feel like a lot of times, comedians make the best actors they do, and so the show is a. You called it a a dark comedy. I think it's a dark. Yeah, I would say it's a dark comedy.

Niq:

Yeah, so there's a lot of emotion, there's a lot of action, but the show was funny. Yeah, it is. It's a funny show. So, yeah, kudos to him. I think this is his first starring role in a TV show. He did an excellent job.

Jess:

He did an excellent job. Yeah, you've seen him in a lot of things he's been doing stand up forever. He's in the show Black-ish. It's probably one of his most prominent roles that people remember him from. This is the first show that I've seen that's focused on him, where he's the star of the show. I love a comedian in a dramatic role. I think people underestimate how much talent it takes just to be a comedian and just to be a funny person. So to me, when I see a comedian in a dramatic role, I'm like I already know you're bringing a lot to the table, so I'm excited to see it. Plus, I also just personally my own personal bias. I feel like comedians make the best storytellers anyway in general. So, yeah, I feel like they can really kind of tell the story through their character, and I feel like he did a good job.

Niq:

I just think that it's really interesting to start a comedy at a funeral because literally this show opens up um at a funeral but it allows you to kind of like meet the care, meet the main characters and understand, like, their relationship to joe. So it, it was very, it's a very interesting. It's called Average Joe because it's not really fantasy. They are like an average Black middle class family. Absolutely it is very easy to put yourself in their shoes, which I feel like makes it easy to judge them and the decisions that they make, because you can easily see like okay, well, if I was in this situation, like no, I would do this, I would do that, but it's, it's funny because it's it's very much outside of the realm of fantasy, like they made they the way that they speak to each other, the way they interact with each other. It is so on point, culturally.

Jess:

That's the other thing that I liked about it is that it is it's not about them being being black. Not that there's anything wrong with a show being about people being black, but it's not about them being black. The focus is really on the thing that they're going through with the funeral. However, it still feels genuinely black and it doesn't feel stereotypical or campy, and so that's what I like the kind of jokes that they make, the way that they talk to each other. It's like, yeah, this is how we talk, right?

Niq:

It's like oh, someone just literally put a camera in my house, right, that's how we talk to each other.

Jess:

And so yeah.

Niq:

I thought that it was good, but it does, to me, explore some specific Black themes, not in a direct way but indirectly, like it does explore some common Black themes. So, like we talked about, the show starts off at his father's funeral and so, although they were not selling fish plates or chicken plates to pay for his funeral, you can tell, like that money is an issue, they're making it, but that's it.

Niq:

They don't have a lot of room for error, and so when the father dies, they didn't come into money, like you never hear them say, oh, you know what, we need to read his will. Oh, we're going to get you know some property or anything like that. And I think that's very common when it comes to like Black American families. A lot of times when someone dies, you're getting a bill yeah, more so than like an inheritance, and so I think that they they made that point and showed that point with like once again making it subtly, like black people will understand like when his father died, he got problems.

Jess:

That's what we a lot of times we inherit problems, issues in situations, and not necessarily like money and property reminds me that that's how papa was a rolling stone and it goes, and it's talking about the father died and when he died, all he left us was alone. Yeah, I never knew if they meant like he left us alone by himself or literally alone, because it really could be either. It was probably both it probably was both.

Niq:

He didn't sound like the best man, so I always assumed that it was both. He left them alone and alone.

Jess:

Right, exactly, and so it's like that's also where it feels really relatable. And I feel like they took something that is common for a lot of black families, like there's chaos after a funeral, and and then they dramatized it and made it even more fantastical, because a lot of times funerals I know funerals in my family it's just chaos and craziness. And where is this? We can't find that and people are trying to figure out what they're going to do to get this person buried and all this kind of stuff, and so there's a lot of drama. And they took it to that next level, adding the secret life piece yes, his, his father, was a very interesting character.

Niq:

So as the show progresses, you kind of learn more and more about his father. So his father had a tow truck business, and so the tow truck business, I guess he was towing cars and he was throwing drugs in the car to help transport it for the Russian mafia. Now, his son knew nothing about this. His dad was like, fairly popular, seemed like a very upstanding citizen, a business owner, close friends with police officers, you know. And so his dad had this entire life. And what made it interesting was, you know, once the like Russian mafia come after Joe because they want to get their money, like, joe immediately decides oh you know what? What? I'm essentially going to pick up where my father left off.

Niq:

His dad stole 10 million dollars and he stole a lamborghini. He's like, oh, I'm gonna find it. And I don't think that is the normal reaction, but it's a very black reaction because once again his father died and did not leave him with anything and he's in a tight financial space. So immediately he's like oh, you know what? This is an opportunity for me to change the course of my family's life and the life of my friends. And so I'm like, if he did not have that financial pressure on him, he might've made different decisions, because that would not have been. My first thought was you know what? Let me try to find this money and find this car, especially when you know that there are people coming after you.

Jess:

See, I don't know, I can't think of this Like I thinking, I'm thinking about this. There's no way I could know there's 10 million dollars out there and not look for it now. The only thing where I think I would have made a different decision is that I, after the the two people, so initially, when you um. So after the funeral, he goes to his father's office to clean out the office and he gets basically jumped by two Russian mobsters, one of which happens to be his daughter's boyfriend, and so he's surprised to find out that this kid is actually part of the Russian mafia. But anyway, like I would have called the police. He ends up having to kill those two people, of course, because they're trying to kill him, they're torturing him. He ends up having to kill those two characters, of course, because they're trying to kill him, they're torturing him, and he ends up having to kill those two characters.

Jess:

I would call the police because I want nothing to do with murder, but I would not have told them about that money. I ain't going to lie. I don't know why they're in here. They just came in here. I had to defend myself Self-defense, you see it.

Niq:

You know it. I don wouldn't have told them about the money either, because I don't. First of all, I wouldn't want to tarnish my father's reputation he's dead. Second of all, I don't want to be implicated in something that has nothing to do with me. You give the police just enough information, just enough information.

Jess:

I don't know why they came up in here. I think they were trying to rob me. I don't know why they're here, but I know they broke my fingers and so I had to defend myself.

Niq:

Right. So yeah, I don't understand why they didn't call the police Because, honestly, I agree with you, they could have called the police and waited for things to calm down and then at some point look for the money later. But to me, another issue I had is they live in a town where all of this chaos is going on and they think that they're going to find that $10 million, but also continue to live in the same city.

Jess:

I don't understand why they want that, but only the guys want to live in the same city. All the women are like let's go, let's be out At some point or another. The women are like let's go. Kathy's like we're not staying here, which is one of his best friend's wife. Kathy is one of his best friend's wives. I don't know why the men want to stay in this little small town. No, and first of all, you still going to like, even if you call in the police, it doesn't solve everything. Like. This is still the mafia. You get rid of some of them. There's more coming, so you cannot stay in the same place you are, but why would you want to?

Niq:

it's not safe like they don't crime. Well, I personally feel like they don't.

Jess:

They don't, well, except for kathy, leon's wife. So leon, there's, joe, leon is one of his best friends. He has two best friends, leon in touch um. Leon's wife's name is kathy. Kathy does crimes.

Niq:

Well, that's it so kathy is a true crime junkie, which felt very relatable because I went through a very strong true crime phase, and so she, she does understand. I feel like she does understand crime even more than touch, who is a police officer. Yes, so, yeah. So this crew of would-be criminals is joe the plumber, leon, who runs a hardware store with his wife, kathy, who's being their store is currently being demolished by like home depot and lowe's trying to put them out of business. They have touch, who is like their good friend. He's a police officer, he's actually the. He's a white, he's the white main character.

Niq:

So everybody else, all the other main characters other than the russian mafia, like all the, the quasi criminals, are all black, except for touch. He is a police officer and he's white. Um, and then you have, uh, jo's wife, who is a paralegal, turned waitress because she suffers from a disease that makes it really hard for her to work. And then they have their daughter, who just turned 18, who was dating the mobster. Can I tell you, the first thing that got on my nerves was their daughter.

Niq:

Yeah, she got on my nerves too, here's the thing I can understand being young and I can understand being in love and that first love. It hits different. It's like a drug, it's like a narcotic. You know what I mean. From the moment that your father says, hey, your boyfriend broke into your grandfather's office and broke my fingers and my arm because he was trying to get information about your grandfather, like he's no longer your boyfriend, right, he's an enemy of our family. But she is just like oh my God, dad, you killed my boyfriend. Oh my boyfriend, oh my god, dad, you chucked my boyfriend up. And I'm just like do you want your father to be dead?

Jess:

right, right but I'm like, okay, okay. So, mind you, I agree with you. Honestly, she got on my nerves. She asked too many questions but, to be fair to the character, her boyfriend, who she's in love with, just died and she finds out that her father is the one that killed him um, but she did get on my nerves to say the same way, and you know what I think I like, when I really really thought about it and I do and I actually think that, like, her character gets on my nerves, but I feel like her character needed to act exactly the way that she acted. Like I think I think they did a good job of writing her.

Jess:

I think the difference is and why we have such a hard time watching her is like it is that she's that first generation child out of the hood, like she didn't grow up the way that they grew up. She got a lot more answers to her questions, a lot more patience or what have you, which produces a child who is a little bit more I don't know if emotionally stable is the right word but at least more communicative about their emotions. And she was that. And so she asked questions. We were taught don't ask questions about the small stuff, don't talk back about the small stuff. So when she's talking back or asking questions at a time where it's like a heightened sense of what's going on, it is so frustrating to watch.

Jess:

You're like shut up this is not the time we supposed to be running. You know, are we supposed to be running?

Niq:

She went to the police station. Your dad has already explained in detail that this man tried to kill him. This man tortured your dad. Why are you going to the police station like that? Like I understand, like you being upset that your boyfriend died, but at this point you are choosing this man over your dad. And your dad said hey, he basically told me that once he killed me, he was coming after you and your mom and she's's like I loved him.

Jess:

Right. It took her too long to get to the fact that he wasn't good, and I get it not immediately Because your brain is trying to process with all the stuff that you think is true, so she doesn't get it immediately, but she still takes way too long to get the fact that this dude is not.

Niq:

Did she get there? I don't know that she ever did. She got on board with finding the money. She kept saying I think Demetrius really loved me.

Jess:

He really loved me. No, he wasn't sweetie. He was using you to get to your dad. He absolutely was. She takes too long to get there. Going to the police yeah, I think that was way too like. Who does that? We never go? Like I mean like, wow, I disagree with joe and them decision not to go to the police at the beginning, especially not touch your friend. Your best friend is a white police officer.

Niq:

I would have called Touch Immediately, but the problem is that I think Touch is literally the most unethical cop ever written.

Jess:

He is, but you still want him on your side in this situation.

Niq:

I agree, I would have still called him. I would have called him. But I wonder, by the time Touch? Because Touch actually does show up at Joe's dad's garage and he's explaining to them what they need to do, but by the time that Touch shows up, they've already decided that they're going to look for the money, Right, and dispose of the bodies. I believe Right, and. But Touch is like so down. They're like, hey, you know, we know that you don't want to be a part of it. He's like no, no, I definitely want to be a part of it. And it made me feel like if they had not made that decision when Touch got there, he would have convinced them anyway because he was so down to do crimes crimes.

Jess:

He was down to do crimes. He absolutely was down to do crimes. But no, I'm saying like I disagree with that choice in the beginning. However, I do fully understand why they still didn't call the police. You know what I mean, because it's always dicey with us having to deal with the police and you always have to consider that you're not necessarily going to get treated like everybody else will get treated if you called the police. So while I disagree with that choice, I understand it.

Niq:

Right Her running up to the police later.

Jess:

on in the show that didn't make girl who Insane? What was you going to do? Insane, and you're running into the police department screaming. What were you about to do?

Niq:

She was very irrational. She was irrational, I'm sorry. She was irrational even when she became, even when she got on board with the plan. She's still and I think the show tried to, the show tried to frame it as she wasn't being respected and her voice wasn't being listened to. So even when she had good ideas, like, they were like overlooking her and they weren't respecting her. And I I agree that she had I I think, maybe one good idea and they did overlook her, they did ignore her, but that was it. Everything else she did was counterproductive. It was, it was counterproductive and I just I'm like, well, maybe you didn't earn the right to be listened to Because we don't know what you're going to do, because you went to the police station and then you tried to attack one of the witnesses.

Jess:

what is wrong with you? And again, if touch had not been there and grabbed her, if that had been any other police officer, if that had been any other police officer, and that's the disconnect. That doesn't make sense Because, sweetie, you know you black, absolutely. You don't run in the police office demanding or screaming anything.

Niq:

Well, but you know what, Once again, I think, like you said, she grew up very sheltered and she does not have those same feelings that we have. She grew up with all of the freedom, all of the you can do anything, so she doesn't have that inherent distrust of the police. But this group of people, I personally feel like they are terrible criminals. They're terrible and you know what I can't appreciate that they should be, and you know what I can appreciate that they should be because they are just regular people. They are.

Jess:

They're good at crimes. You know what I mean. That would be a problem.

Niq:

So they, as they're going and searching for this money, they are amassing bodies like crazy. So Joe gets attacked and he ends up killing two people, with the help of, I think, leon comes in and saves him.

Jess:

Yeah, I would say saves.

Niq:

But assist, leon assist. So that's two bodies right there at the gate at the beginning episode, and so then, yeah, so then, like the russians track leon because leon has one of their phones, they actually go to leon's house and they try to kill leon and leon's wife, kathy, shoots them. So now we're up to three, three dead bodies and I I think this is within the span of probably 24 hours. Yeah, there's a total of three dead bodies that need to be disposed of yeah, his dad's not cold in the ground, yet no, no, you know what.

Niq:

Which would have been, which is funny, like, depending on how many days ago his dad would have had been buried, it might have made more sense to dig up their dad's grave and put the bodies in there, because who's going to look for a body in a grave? True, that probably would have made more sense. That would have made more sense. Instead, uh, they use kathy's idea, which is to cut the bodies up, smear them in peanut butter and throw them in the woods for animals to find and eat. And, honestly, the plan is a lot. It's a lot. It is a lot, but the plan would have worked. But her husband, leon, carelessly throws the head onto a golf course that was adjacent to the woods. Now, personally, I would have checked a map and I wouldn't have chosen woods that was close to a golf course that was adjacent to the woods. Now, personally, I would have checked a map and I wouldn't have chosen woods that was close to a golf course.

Jess:

I don't think he throws it on the golf course. He throws it in the woods, but it's just not deep enough, so the animals drag it to the golf course.

Niq:

Right, but I just feel like once again you're not criming well, because why would you choose woods that are close to a golf course?

Jess:

why would you choose woods that are in your town?

Niq:

quite honestly, that is very true. They do everything within their town and it does not make sense to me like you can't live, work and shoot people in the same area. You have to spread that out.

Jess:

You gotta spread that out Now, like from the beginning too, like just them doing crimes badly. And I know like initially they're like okay, we're not gonna tell any of the women, blah, blah, blah, we're just gonna hand this ourselves and tell nobody. And of course all the women end up finding out. But the reason why you don't let men do crimes alone is because all the decisions are dumb. You know what I mean. So like you take these two bodies, that you put them in your work van, you know, with all the bodily fluids that are starting to leak, you carry them to your house with their cell phones that are pinging and and people can trace them back to your house. So that's how the Russians end up finding both of them. Is that the two cell phones? Leon stole one cell phone, which was dumb, because what are you going to do with this cell phone?

Niq:

Right.

Jess:

And then the other cell phone was still on Dimitri's body.

Niq:

Turned up so loud, so loud, he didn't even turn the ringer off and the phone has a very distinct ringer, and so the daughter is calling her boyfriend, as she's been calling him all day. She literally hears the phone go off in the van and that's when she finds his body, which, yes, that is a traumatic way to find the body. It is it is, and so I understand your initial reaction. I'm gonna stop calling that girl. Yeah, no, I'm gonna stop, but like so, yes, you found out in a traumatic way and I I feel bad for that, but your, your dad, is not good at crimes because that phone should not be with the body. It definitely should not be turned on. Why is that phone should not be with the body? It definitely should not be turned on. Why is that phone not broken apart, the SIM card thrown somewhere, like, come on, it's 2024.

Jess:

If anything you were going to throw in a body of water, it is the phone. It's dismantled. Throw it, corrupt it so that it can't be, and then throw it. You know, and you want to again put this in a place as far away from your home as possible.

Niq:

Throw it, you know and you want to again put this in a place as far away from your home as possible.

Jess:

Yes, you know. Yes, you don't take all, so to me I'm like y'all are dragging all the stuff and it's obvious that you're dragging all the stuff to the house, you know.

Jess:

Right, you know yeah, letting everybody know where you live. And then there's already the connection I feel like, regardless they would have have come for them because, like your father was running drugs for them, so like the first thing they're going to do is check his son, of course, right but at this point the show becomes like a scavenger hunt where they're doing everything they can to find, like the money and the car, before the Russian mafia finds them.

Niq:

they don't. The Russian mafia finds them, they don't. The Russian mafia is very efficient and finds them time and time and time again, because once again, these people do not crime well With the exception of Kathy. With the exception of Kathy.

Jess:

Kathy is the best out of all of them, now, not all of her ideas are winners, but a good percentage of them are.

Niq:

Okay, so let's talk about the scavenger hunt aspect, right? So Joe's father leaves clues. For example, like, in the safe there was $100,000 and there was a safety deposit key. Joe had no idea what bank the safety deposit box went to, and the only reason why he ended up finding the safety deposit box was because kathy used to work at that bank. But if kathy did not work at that bank, how was joe gonna like? How long would it have taken him to find the safety deposit box?

Niq:

His dad is the worst at scavenger hunts. His dad's a terrible person and we'll get more into that later. But just just for the scavenger hunt aspect, I'm like you. Like you are supposed to leave clues that people can follow. You're just dropping random stuff. So there's a key for a safety deposit box. Because of Kathy, he finds out the safety deposit box.

Niq:

In the safety deposit box there's a compass and there's a key to the Lambo. And so then he has to figure out that the lambo is at the place where his dad used, where he used to hide when his dad used to torture him as a kid. Yes, yeah, essentially. So he figures that out, you know. And so they get the lambo thinking oh, this lambo is going to have 10 million dollars in it, which 10 million dollars is a lot of physical money. It is, and I don't really sometimes I don't feel like the show really understands that. That 10 million dollars is a is a, it's heavy and it's a lot of physical money because that, like a lamborghini, would be the worst place to put 10 000 10 million dollars. A Lamborghini would be the worst place to put $10 million, because they don't have much of a trunk. It's very slim. I'm just like. I never believed the money was in that car because it didn't make sense.

Jess:

It didn't, but I'm like, well, once they threw out, leon actually had a good idea. That wasn't accurate, but it was still a good idea. It was like tires, because you do you can't hide and pack things in tires. So I was like if anything, it would have to be packed inside of the tires and then underneath the thing that you usually put the jack in for the trunk. There's ways, like maybe underneath the seats or something.

Niq:

There's ways to do it not in a way, not in a way that would pass any kind of test. If you're getting pulled over and you're transporting something drugs, money, guns, whatever it has to pass through an inspection. $10 million in a Lamborghini, it would be very hard.

Jess:

I don't know, because if you're getting pulled over unless you're crossing like country lines like they, you know what I mean like they have to have a warrant, a reason to search your car they do, but I had a little bit.

Jess:

When Kathy does get pulled over by the police, I'm like girl you watch the crime shows. Tell them no, because they're going to push, make it seem like that you have to or they're going to get in trouble. You don't. But if they don't have a warrant and you're not being detained, then no, you cannot search my vehicle. And the answer is always no, you cannot search my vehicle.

Niq:

So the same thing. They don't always know, but if they have probable cause and a lot of- times Take that probable cause and go get a warrant.

Jess:

Take that probable cause and go get a warrant. Take that probable cause and go get a warrant, and if not, then this is all this whole thing, and if you don't, you do it anyway, which, for black people in the police, you know they might. Okay, then now I get a lawyer, and this is fruit of the poisonous tree, because you didn't do the search correctly and so none of this is admissible. Huh.

Niq:

I'm just saying.

Jess:

Let's do crimes well.

Niq:

You know, I feel like if you're going to do anything, do it well, crimes included. I do so. They eventually find the Lamborghini and there's no money. There's no money in the Lamborghini, and so let's see, I'm trying to think where the next clue is. It's videotapes. Right, it's something having to do with football. It's the two license plates, the license plates. Okay, so the license plates.

Jess:

There's a lot of space between that clue and when we get the next clue. I feel like that's several episodes later. But she sees the license plates together and it's a license plate of a um with a team member's number that he doesn't like and one that he does and they're like he would never have this and that's how they know that it means something yes, but that's the point I'm trying to make.

Niq:

They find the lamborghini, but it takes them so long to put together the next clue because this is the world's worst scavenger hunt. I don't understand Because, once again, joe is not aware of the things that his father does. Joe does not live that life. He's not a criminal. Why would you expect him to have like these criminal?

Jess:

Criminal mindset.

Jess:

And I think so I think, okay, go back to explain a little bit more about the father. Like the father this is not new for Joe, in a sense of the father has been setting him up on scavenger hunts, dropping him off in the woods and making him find his way home. He's been doing this Joe's entire life. So I think it Teddy, which been doing this joe's entire life. So I think in teddy which teddy is, the name of the father, is mine. I've been preparing you for this all along. You don't mean to to be able to solve these clues and get this scavenger hunt. That doesn't mean it's accurate, but I think that that's what he's thinking. He's like oh, I've, you know, I've been setting this up for a long time so that you can work through. You know how to work through clues. You know how to find, find stuff, because when Joe was a kid, teddy would drop him off in the woods and make him find his way home.

Niq:

You know, leave the clues Like I get that, but these clues are, once again, they're terrible. They're terrible clues. And, on top of that, joe and teddy did not have the best relationship like it started as a child, when he was essentially let's call it what it was abusing him. Yeah, um, and he actually joe ended up like missing his mom's death because his dad had dropped him in the woods and the mom is like fussing at the dad about you know why would you go and get him? Why you have him wandering around in the woods at night, it's cold, and the mom ends up dying before joe even makes it back. And their relationship has not seemed to improve since then.

Niq:

It sounds like, you know, I think, that the dad may have had a good relationship with his granddaughter. Sounds like he doted on her a bit, but, like Joe, that they never they never became close, they never got to see eye to eye. I don't think Joe ever felt like his dad respected him, you know, or really like really, really cared about him, and so that once again makes it even weirder that he that he did this because joe wouldn't even expect it, he was not prepared for it at all, and also like this is another thing like that I don't think I really thought about before his father. Even though they didn't get along, his father just died. He's not in the best place emotionally when this stuff happens and maybe that informs some of his absolutely terrible decisions.

Jess:

Probably, probably. But also like his father never cared about his feelings. Like his father felt making him tough, making him be able to get out of any situation, you know, making him. I guess in his mind he thought these things were making him safe, I don't know, but like was more important than anything else. He never cared about Joe's emotions Because he intentionally, like Joe says towards the end, says he loved me from afar just to make sure I wasn't weak. Yeah, the idea of him being weak was worse than anything, so he put that above everything else. Being weak was worse than anything, so he put that above everything else. Like all of these little tests and leaving him in the woods and all this kind of stuff was in Teddy's mind to make him tough. I'm not saying I agree with it or it's right, but I'm saying I think that that's that continued line of thinking.

Niq:

Okay, so we find the next clue. The next clue actually leads Joe back to his house to find that there's like some money hidden there. More bodies pile up, um, but that is only like a million dollars. So at this point they've found like 1.1 million dollars and at this point they've probably killed five or six people in the process, and the russian people have also probably killed five or six people in the process, and the Russian people have also probably killed some folks. So, like at this point, seven, like around seven people have died. That's crazy. Like there's so much collateral damage in this show that I'm just like, okay, at what point do we say maybe this is not worth it?

Niq:

the point where we find it to me but how many, like literally how many people have to die?

Jess:

the people they killed were part of the Russian mafia. Them two homeowners that got killed went in like. None of us are gonna pretend, like we said, that the two died. They were obnoxious and they didn't kill them, so them dying was their own obnoxiousness and feeling entitled to barge into them people's house.

Niq:

Yeah that was Joe's boss and Joe's boss' wife, who treated them like the sun on the bottom of their shoe. Don't make me remember those people's names, stan and Winnie. I think, so, yeah, I wasn't heartbroken when they died. So up to seven people.

Jess:

You got like five Russian Mafia and two entitled assholes.

Niq:

The peanut butter guy died. That's the only one I feel bad about. Oh, okay, also, I'm going to tell you who I feel bad for and I'm going to tell you that you're not going to feel bad for them. I feel bad for the two people who found the head because they ended up dying because they were on. They found the head on the golf course and they were like, uh, on the news and they were like playing with the head and they weren't taking it seriously. They're being very disrespectful to the dead body and so Dimitri's father kills them in retaliation, and I understand that they were wrong, but that head should have never been on the golf course and so I feel bad that they ended up being tortured to death. And I know, because they were jerks, you're like I don't feel bad. Who does that? It was crazy. Who?

Jess:

does that I think and, mind you, I wouldn't put it past nobody because I know people would put everything on social media but it definitely would not be my first to find something like that and then want to film it and put it on TV and then have somebody's loved one discover that their person has died that way. That's why, you know, I'm a little squeamish when it comes to blood, guts and gore. So can I watch the scene where he's torturing them? No, Do I?

Niq:

feel blood, guts and gore. So can I watch the scene where he's torturing them? No, do I feel bad? So, like that's like. So, yes, those like that is just like that's five people who died and, on top of all, the russian mafia, mafia people who died, the only person I feel bad for is apple.

Niq:

Apple didn't deserve to die that's the guy who owned the peanut butter store, and so I don't know, Like so to me, like that kind of really made me stop and think I'm like okay, at this point, is it really worth it? There's so much collateral damage, and like, how do you?

Jess:

stop at this point you know what I mean Like, so, like, and this is my thing. So like I feel like Joe gets a lot of flack from a lot of the different characters and I get it Everybody's heightened in a sense of, like you know, tizzy, because all this stuff is going on, but like this is dropped in Joe's lap and what are you supposed to do? Because if you stop looking for the money, it doesn't mean that they are going to stop coming for you.

Niq:

No, but he could have went to the police. He could have got his wife and daughter out of town immediately. That's the only thing.

Jess:

I feel like the wife and daughter should have got out of town immediately. That's the other thing about not doing crimes. Well, the wife and daughter need to be someplace else, at some other family member's house that we don't usually talk to or something like that. They need to be gone. They should have got out, because they're not helping anyway. The wife is sick, she's got polymyalgia, and so she can only physically take so much. She needs to be somewhere with her medicine, with her feet rested up. You know, feet up, right. The daughter is just generally not helpful.

Niq:

She's not. I dislike her so much.

Jess:

She's not helpful, so let's get her on out the way it needs to be. Kathy and the men.

Niq:

Yes, kathy being the leader, kathy as the leader.

Jess:

Kathy went from my least favorite character in the first episode to my favorite character in the second episode.

Niq:

Yes, agree, the first episode.

Jess:

I'm like what Whoa, what I'm like, what I'm like right, and I'm just second episode I go like after she said that line, like so she has to she no. The end of the first episode she ends up killing the guy that, um, the russian guy that comes into her house. Second episode she brings him to joe's house and is fussing at joe like what have you gotten us into? Basically. But when I tell you, the line that killed me is when he fussed to her, called her light skin and she said what are you talking about, light skin? Your wife looked like jennifer aniston from the back.

Niq:

I was done I was done that line of the entire show and that show and see that is the kind of stuff that makes this show very culturally Black, because that is exactly how we talk to each other, and I kept every shot of the back of his wife's head.

Jess:

Girl. Every time I saw her, any time she had that blonde on with the little wave and I was like I just would stop and start laughing Because I went back to Jennifer Aniston from the back.

Niq:

Yes, and that line stuck with me the entire show. That was one of the best lines of the show and.

Niq:

I just I died. I died laughing, but yes, I like I. So I feel like the people who got onto Joe were justified, because there was a lot of selfishness in his actions, because he poised it like, oh, I'm doing this to take care of our family, I'm doing this to make our lives better. But if he was really real with himself, he felt like he needed to prove something to his father, and that's what this whole thing was about, even the way that he handled the situation, everything. He was trying to prove something to his dad and he put his wife, his daughter and his closest friends in even more danger out that there was $10 million involved. They were down for a certain amount of danger.

Niq:

Ultimately, I honestly feel like if the show started out and it was just a million dollars and a Lambo, the story would have went the same way For Joe. It was not necessarily about the amount of money. He was using the amount of money to justify his actions, but he wanted, because he was learning more about his father than he ever knew and he felt like his dad had essentially given him this challenge and he wanted to live up to who he wanted, who his dad wanted him to be, and I that it was irritating. I found that to be very and I that it was irritating. I found that to be very, very irritating. That did not irritate me at all.

Jess:

Like, I don't even disagree with anything that you just said, like, yeah, there's a certain element of. I want to prove it. I want to finally solve one of these puzzles that he's created for me, you know, especially with the context that he's grieving his dad is gone. However, I think I have a lot of sympathy for Joe, because this this to me, the situation was dropped in Joe's lap and none of us were like this wasn't, this wasn't something he went out and saw, this wasn't something he went to look for. The situation was dropped in his lap and as much as we can say and do and yell back at the screen should have done this at this moment.

Jess:

I would have done this, I would have done this differently if any of us had been dropped this situation dropped in our life. No, you don't really know what to do. You know what I mean. Like you don't really know what the right thing is to do and I felt like, yeah, you get into the cycle of just responding to the next thing, you know, because, like, this is a crazy situation to be dropped in anybody's lap. It is, it is I.

Jess:

I don't think like you know like again, we could say all the things about like what you would do and of course we're going to but at the end of the day, like nothing necessarily would have stopped the mafia from coming after them. You know what I mean.

Jess:

Like they're calling the police at the beginning, like because to me, like I'm like you, like, especially once the police knew that they were involved, they also should have put them in protective custody and did so, so I'm like nothing was going to stop them from coming after them. You're still going to have to deal with this situation. And to me, this was a situation that was dumped on him, that he had no choice about, and so it's like, again, he's not a master criminal, he is just the average Joe. He is just a regular guy. He is a plumber. This is what he does. That's his expertise. He is a plumber. This is what he does. That's his expertise.

Jess:

So, no, I don't know what to do when, all of a sudden, these criminals are at my front door and I'm just scrambling trying to figure out what to do. And I think that's why I kind of like I don't know, I take everything that he does with a grain of salt, because I'm like who knows what would have really been the best for them. Because, quite honestly, and then okay, other thing, okay, just to back that up. So at some point in the show you realize that Nikolai, who's the head of the crime syndicate, has like people everywhere. He's got police that work for him, the governor technically works for him. So again, even going into protective custody, like if the police had or the FBI had or whoever had actually done what they should have done, and put him in protective custody, because y'all also should have been monitoring Nikolai, even if they never came to the police, y'all should have been monitoring him to know this stuff was going on. Anyway, there's no, that might not have even provided them safety.

Niq:

Maybe not, but I just feel like there are things that he could have done to show that his family was the number one priority and his family was not. He got like very much sucked in to like this idea of essentially living the life that his dad was living and like finishing out his dad's master plan. I feel like, and I'm just like the reason, everybody saw it and that's why, like there was like people were tearing him to shreds, because it's like hey, like we're not equipped for this, we are not built for this, you know, and Joe is just like constantly pushing, pushing, pushing, you know, even is just like constantly pushing, pushing, pushing, you know, even like his wife is literally begging him like stop, stop, stop. She also got on my nerves. We'll talk about that in the next episode.

Niq:

I want to explore relationships in the next episode, like because I think that's like a really interesting take that we can focus on. So, guys, relationships in the next episode, like cause I think that's like a really interesting uh take that we can focus on. Yeah, so, guys, we'll see you next time. See you next time.