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Next Episode
All of This!
What happens when emotional availability and career ambitions clash in the world of streaming sensations? Find out as we dissect "Nobody Wants This" and unravel the tangled relationships of Noah and Joanne. From Joanne’s quirky self-awareness to her penchant for emotionally unavailable partners, we explore how her family dynamics, particularly her father's absence, might play a role in her choices. We take a closer look at the challenges she faces in balancing love and career, especially when Noah interrupts a pivotal work moment, igniting a debate about professional boundaries and gender dynamics.
Does love mean compromising your identity? As Joanne's podcast with her sister gains traction, her relationship with Noah seems to shift her focus, raising questions about authenticity and self-sacrifice. We scrutinize Noah's seemingly too-perfect character and contemplate the cultural expectations he challenges, especially as a rabbi who steps outside conventional behavior. Amidst all this, we examine the lessons on accountability in Noah's past relationship with Rebecca, shedding light on the importance of facing consequences in love.
Family dynamics and future choices come into the spotlight as we analyze the maternal bond between Joanne and her sister. Their unconventional mother adds an extra layer of emotional complexity, and we consider how these relationships shape their journey. Meanwhile, Noah's decisions at the season's end raise eyebrows, prompting speculation about his future and the potential twists that might await in a second season. Join us for a thought-provoking conversation that navigates love, career, and personal growth in the ever-evolving landscape of modern relationships.
Hi guys, thank you for joining us again for next episode. I'm Nick and I'm Jess, and so today we're going to continue talking about Netflix hit. Nobody Wants this. I think today we're going to do like a deep dive and talk about the two main characters, noah and Joanne. Yeah, that works, noah and Joanne. Yeah, yeah, that works. And so give me a brief overview of what you think of Joanne or what, or give her a description, and then I want to kind of come in and tell you and fill in some nuance and things that I Okay.
Speaker 2:All right. So I'd say Joanne is funny, a little bit anxiety ridden, but like quirky kind of character, very open, very honest, very comfortable with herself and her issues. She has a good friend group who I love their banter. They are all hilarious. She has close relationship with her sister. Her family is important to her but there are some interesting struggles with the family right now. Let's see, she is a goal-oriented person, has a nice career that she's working towards.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like her, I like her as a character. I think she's interesting, I think she's funny. You know, I think she's interesting, I think she's funny. Um, sometimes I wonder, is she like hyper self-aware, is what I ask myself, because it's like when she like. So there's a scene where she actually ends up meeting Noah, where she goes into the party and she has like on this huge fur coat and during her conversation with Noah he's like oh, you know, basically telling her that I know that you're insecure because you have this big coat on, she's like oh, you can see that. She's like yeah, I know that too. You know, normally, like someone is not that self-aware where they like have this issue and they're actively covering the issue, normally it's like I don't even realize that I'm doing it, but she's like no, I know I'm insecure no, I think.
Speaker 2:I think people can vary quite a bit with their self awareness. So I think there's different levels of awareness and I think you can be very aware of an issue, but that doesn't mean you've resolved it and so what do you think Like?
Speaker 1:so there's a part where her sister is talking about her in relationships and she's like, oh, you only want a man who doesn't want you. And she's like, what do you mean? And so she's giving her all these you know explanations about how she, like, tends to run away and like, do you think that that is is very common nowadays? So many women seem, it seems like in a post-tender environment, that it's very hard for people to find actual relationships and a lot of times it seems like people don't match up with intentions, intentions like when I'm looking and I say this as if I'm not someone who's married, but from what I've seen, people like who want to be in relationships don't often meet other people who want to be in relationships.
Speaker 2:It's like kind of like trains missing each other okay, um, I agree that people like it's hard for those those people to be to, but can you tell me what's the question here?
Speaker 1:So my question was about her running away. But also she wants to be in relationships, but she tends to put herself into situations where the person is not available. And I'm saying, is that like a defense mechanism, living in like a post-tender environment where it's really hard to find what you want, because it seems like people don't are not honest about their intentions?
Speaker 2:I think two, three things can be true at the same time, and I think the answer is both. I think she is emotionally unavailable and that's part of what we see her work through throughout the season and trying to show up differently in her relationship with Noah. I want to call him Adam. So bad In her relationship with Noah is that she's trying to work through her history of being kind of emotionally unavailable and be more available and be more open and honest about what her emotions are. But I do think it's clear that she has a long history of being emotionally unavailable and be more available and be more open and honest about what her emotions are. But I do think she it's clear that she has a long history of emotion, of being emotionally unavailable, and some of the things that that make me think that is, yes, the conversation that the sister has and all the ridiculous guys that she's gone out with or entertained or what have you, and the ones that she likes being the ones who don't like her don't, you know, claim her. And then when she describes that guy who doesn't claim her, she kind of gives this look like I remember him. Yeah, that was, that was her.
Speaker 2:But there's something else that the mom said to make me think as to why um is that? They, they okay, I'm sorry I'm starting over my words um, she was when the mom is talking to um. She was when the mom is talking to noah, because that's the character's name. When the mom is talking to noah, um, she says, like the girls have a really hard time basically dealing with their father being emotionally available because that's not what they're used to from him. So then it makes it. You know, she I'm paraphrasing, you know. But she basically says, um, something to that sentiment and I'm like so, okay, that makes sense. They're not used to dealing with emotionally available men and may also be emotionally unavailable themselves because of some issues that they've had in their childhood. You know right. So that makes perfect sense to me that she would be emotionally unavailable. And, of course, if you are emotionally unavailable, then you choose to um, to uh, have also emotionally unavailable partners. So you gotta't gotta do all that you know, that scene made me sad.
Speaker 1:It made me sad because, basically, the mom is like oh, you know, now he? Because? So in this movie, um, her parents were married for like 30 something years and then her dad, was it 30? Was it that long, dang? I don't think that they had been divorced that long. I think they've been separated for like a year or two, it hasn't. So they had a long, they had a, they were married for the majority, I think, of the girls lives, okay, I believe. And then her father comes out of the closet and him and the mom get divorced. The mom is still in love with the dad, the dad is not divorced.
Speaker 1:They're not divorced, they're only separated. Separated, oh, wow, but I thought they were. They celebrated the anniversary of their divorce, oh, of their separation. That's interesting. Okay, I missed that. So they have been. They were married for a very, very long time.
Speaker 1:The dad came out of the closet and now he's moved on, he's dating, he has a boyfriend and he's very like, emotional and he's very affectionate. And for the mom to say, you know, they never saw that from him and I'm like I don't understand how, like, dealing with your sexuality caused you to withhold love from your children. Because the mom makes it seem like they were connected, you know, because it's like now he's out of the closet, now he's so affectionate and caring to his new partner, you know, and it's like she's saying, oh, it's hard for the girls to see that, yeah, and I'm just like I. That made me sad because I'm like I understand, like you know, the struggles of hiding your sexuality not that I I've experienced it, but I can empathize with that, but I don't understand why that would make you withhold your love from your children. That scene made me sad. It didn't make me dislike the dad, because, for whatever reason, the dad, I find him to be hilarious.
Speaker 1:I do too. I love him as a character. I enjoy him to be hilarious. I do too. I find him to be so hilarious, so I love him as a character. I enjoy him as a character and I hope, if there's a season two, we see more of him.
Speaker 1:Agreed, but that did make me sad yeah.
Speaker 2:And the girls kind of corroborate that, because when they're talking about having the ick, or her getting the ick with Noah, every time, every time, every time With you know, one of the things the sister's like, she's like, no, who gave me the egg?
Speaker 2:And she says, dad, you know, with him saying I love you and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:So yeah, so then the mom is, you know right, like what she's saying is accurate, I think. But to answer your question, I think if you're dealing with like I don't know what his journey is yet because we haven't seen much as to how he got to where he got, but I can imagine with dealing with something or maybe not being able to be even honest with yourself about that would take up a lot of emotional time and space and energy. Or trying to hide something you know might take up a lot, where it affects your whole, your personality. And then when you, when he finally comes out and he's able to just be his full self, he's able to be his full self in other areas of his life and it is sad that it would it affects the, the children, but it also, you know, he's really struggling with something internally that he may not, for whatever reason, sought help or sought, you know, the channels to kind of figure out what was going on with himself for a very long time. And it's interesting that he gets with a therapist.
Speaker 1:It is interesting. It is interesting. Did you feel like the boyfriend was kind of overstepping his bounds a little bit when he was talking to the girls and they're like, hey, back up?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it feels too close too soon. Right, I'm like now girls and they're like hey, back up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it feels too close too soon right, that's I'm like now, knowing that they're not even divorced. I I I'm not sure he should be bringing his partner around, and not that I don't think that it's not that the girls have an issue with him being gay, because that doesn't seem to be an issue at all. It seems like they, like you, like the mom says, they haven't worked through the emotions in seeing what they basically did not receive, but he was capable of receiving, so I feel like they kind of needed to work through that before he starts bringing people around. Yeah, that makes sense. Is the dad self-aware, though? Do you think he's even and I know we've gotten completely off topic I don't even think the dad is self-aware of the situation. I hope they explore that more in season two, because I think that it was such a small scene, but it was like I'm like, oh, there's a lot there, there's a lot there that they can like mine for cons. It was good.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I really enjoyed that scene, but it didn't make me sad, but like, going back, we were talking about joanne, okay, and we got into her. We started talking about her, her parents, why she's like emotionally cut off, okay, the funny thing is like for her and I know before she met noah, she said that she was going to move into, like, more healthy relationships. Um, and then she kind of, when she met Noah, found out that his, his situation was a little messy and decided to pursue it anyway, which I don't have an issue with, because if you have a connection with someone, even if it seems like it could be messy, I think you owe it to yourself to see it through in a sense that just see, you know, if maybe you want to wait until the muck a little bit, you know, but that I think that goes into more of who I am as a person because here's the thing I have a I have a different feel for the show versus real life.
Speaker 2:For the show, I'm glad they waited into it and got into it. If I, if I knew show versus real life. For the show I'm glad they waded into it and got into it. If I, if I knew her in real life, it's like a real situation. I'm like it's it's been 48 hours if you don't back up and wait to this boy.
Speaker 2:Really get over this woman or work through whatever you gotta work through with this woman, you know what I mean. Like in real life. That's how I would feel for the purposes of the show and the conflict and drama of the show. I enjoyed it, right, but like you know. But do I think that that is in any way healthy?
Speaker 1:absolutely not you know I can't say anything about her doing things I have done in real life you need to tell me right, you were there.
Speaker 1:I was like, hey, this don't make no damn sense, but okay but also I feel like when it came to Noah, like she folded so fast in the sense that she became like sucked in to him, like she was open and she was open to like the things that he I don't want to say criticism, because I don't feel like he criticized her, but when he saw things in her that he felt like weren't right, he wouldn't talk about it and she, like her defenses were down. She's like you know what. You're right.
Speaker 2:You know what?
Speaker 1:I mean Like she really jumped in two feet. Now I will say that the things that I had an issue with when it came to Joanne is how quickly she started putting her career on the back burner when it came to Noah, that I you know. I now that and I'm a romantic girl. You are.
Speaker 2:That's funny. You don't like rom-coms, but you are more of a romantic than I am.
Speaker 1:I am In real life. I'm a romance. Like I love, like love, like that's me. I'm a lover girl in real life. One thing I don't play about is my career. Like I'm, like girl, what are you doing?
Speaker 2:No, I completely felt so, like there's a scene where they're going away for a weekend and then and Noah's, noah's career has already interrupted the weekend and changed where they're going. Okay, cause she ends up going to the camp with him so that he can run, run the service, or what have you, cause his boss canceled. And then something comes up in her career. She has this huge, huge opportunity and she decides to go on the weekend anyway. And I'm like girl, no, absolutely not. I think it's the Spotify execs. You meet with the Spotify execs.
Speaker 2:Not only that.
Speaker 1:This man going to be here. There's a series of events and she ends up at the meeting anyway, even though she initially was going to leave it to her sister. But one. She ends up at the meeting anyway, even though she initially was going to leave it to her sister but one, she she ends up at the meeting anyway, and noah shows up to the meeting.
Speaker 2:That irritated me, that pissed me off. Like and there's not like I overall I like noah's character overall. There's issues, of course yes, we're gonna talk about him next, um but overall I like his character. I do not like the way because I feel like I think you know. I think why I do not like the way, because I feel like I think you know, I think why I'm reacting so strongly to this is because I feel like men do this in real life and it pissed me off. You do not get to interrupt a woman's career for, whatever your romantic foolishness is, she's at a business meeting. You know, at this point, this is a huge possibility for her podcast and you want to insert yourself because you messed up. No, sir, you can make this up tomorrow.
Speaker 1:Be uncomfortable tonight can I tell you what that scene reminds me of? Do you remember, like when Offset broke up with? When Cardi B broke up with Offset and she was at a concert and he came on stage with like all of these, like flowers, and she's like I'm literally performing.
Speaker 2:I had no clue that happened oh okay, some stuff I ain't got the energy for but it's like the same thing, like I'm doing something.
Speaker 2:I'm doing something important, like you, you can like do that later because you are not the most important thing in this moment. You know what I mean, not that you're not important to them, but like I don't like that because I feel like men do that and ruin women's big moments and you also interfere with her, with their career. And again, the the casual comfortableness with you walking in and out of the spaces of her job bothers me. And I guess you could say that she did go into synagogue, but that's a little different. That's open to the public, but, um, it bothers me. And the funny thing is, but he also invited her to go to the synagogue. Oh, he did, okay so then that's different.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, I'm wrong. I'm wrong. He did not invite her. He asked Ashley, one of her friends, about her. I think he had told her that he was preaching at the synagogue.
Speaker 2:So no, I'm wrong, but she wasn't invited. But again, but you know, she came in. She sat in the back, or what have you and has she?
Speaker 1:not been in bright red, it would have been a lot less disruptive. That dress was very synagogue sexy, like it was too sexy for the center. It wasn't inappropriate, it wasn't, but it was too sexy. It was very sexy for the synagogue and bright red, and like the fact that they kept talking about her being blonde. I'm like I know there's probably a ton of blonde Jewish women in there the female rabbi is blonde yes, she is, she is, but so what?
Speaker 1:when he came to that meeting I was so irritated, but then I was also irritated when she left the meeting to go and talk to her about her relationship with him, right, and then the execs are watching.
Speaker 2:Y'all have the bread and toast and what. How unprofessional absolutely not.
Speaker 1:I was like, come on now, if you are a podcaster like, and her and her sister have been like they've had this podcast for like it sounds like quite a while yeah, they've invested a lot of time and energy in it and like been like they've had this podcast for like it sounds like quite a while yeah, they've invested a lot of time and energy in it. And like this is like for them to take the next level and it's a big step up. And, according to Joanne herself, like this deal with Spotify can open, you know, the doors for them to do movies or books or live shows, you know different things Like this is not a small thing that they're doing. This is a big thing. This is not her going to a VidCon or something like that, like one of those conferences or something. This is a meeting with execs who can take your podcast to a multi, multi-million dollar level. We can talk about our argument later, right? I was so irritated by that I was.
Speaker 2:You know what. It reminds me. Okay, so last um, the last show that we we talked about was kevin um, kevin can f himself and we talked about that, about like that trope of a man walking up on doing something to disrupt your job. And I'm like dang, even here I told you that was one of the most believable tropes, because I'm like I feel like I see that all the time, but I also feel like I see men do that in real life and it's just like the way that they just don't respect what you do, no matter what you do. Right, because it's the woman's job. It's not as serious If the situations had been reversed and she had messed up and if she walks up to you in the middle of your sermon I don't know if it's called a sermon, but whatever your speech at the synagogue, you would understand how inappropriate that was.
Speaker 1:That definitely irritated me and I'm just like, because it's like one characterization of her is that she's a girl boss, so much so that her sister is trying to keep up with her and people almost treat her sister as a second class. You know, citizen, even though they're a team their podcast is a team, but they people have anointed joanne as the leader. The spotify people, you know ashley, who's like their publicist everybody in general sees joanne as the leader of the duo. Yeah, you know what I mean. And so, knowing that not only are you the leader of the duo, knowing that your podcast is on a is on the verge of stepping up, and also she's trying to maintain control to make sure that, as her podcast steps up to the next level, it doesn't lose she doesn't lose so much creative control that it's not something that doesn't represent her anymore like this. These are serious stakes here. You know what I mean. And it's not that your romantic relationship is not important, but everything has a time and place, exactly.
Speaker 2:And you could have did that later. You could have did that tomorrow.
Speaker 1:You would have been okay. Yeah, so that part did not make it To me. That did not match up with her character. That's why I said she folded when it came to Noah. Like she really like she really folded. She's like whatever, like he, he is everything.
Speaker 2:I agree Because like so much like this is something I was kind of struggling with because the sister alludes to her at some point in the show changing too much for him. You know what I mean. And I kept going back and forth. I was like I kept going back and forth with whether or not I agreed with the sister or not because I'm like, yeah, in some ways I'm like in some ways I feel like she's intentionally trying to change for the better. Like I said, she's trying to be more open, she's trying to talk through issues instead of just reacting how she normally would react, and I think that that change is about her. But then there's other things, like pretending that she likes basketball and wearing that ugly behind dress that she put on initially for the um, for the meeting, for the dinner with her um, with his brother and sister-in-law. I'm like that feels like, well, okay, we're starting to morph into what you think is good for him right?
Speaker 1:no, no, I definitely, I definitely agree. But to me it did not fit who she initially was. When she met him, she just completely was like oh no, I have to do whatever, I have to contort myself in every way to fit him. And it's not that she becomes a complete, she doesn't become a complete walkover. She doesn't. No, she doesn't. She doesn't become like a complete walkover, like she doesn't. No, she doesn't.
Speaker 2:But I was surprised.
Speaker 1:I was surprised at how like willing she was to not necessarily shrink herself, but to to change like so much about her her life and personality to make him comfortable. Yeah Right, yeah, right, yeah. And so, going back to episode one, where we talked about how this show is like, based on something that happened in real life, but it's more inspired by, inspired by yeah, I think it's a better way to say it Inspired by, you know, a real love story way to say it inspired by a real love story. When I look at Noah and how he's painted, once again I kind of feel like he's painted with a very kind brush.
Speaker 1:When I look at him, I see some things that I one don't understand and some things that I don't like, but I feel like overall, his character is kind of it's kind of airbrushed in the movie overall, where he seems to have gotten like even a better edit than Joanne. Like you know what I'm like, he is very much portrayed as a good, kind-hearted guy that loves everyone and wants the best for everyone, and any mistakes that he makes it's because he's trying to help someone or save someone's feelings, or you know what I'm saying. That's how I feel like his character is portrayed, but me, I'm looking, I'm like I see some problems.
Speaker 2:I see some problems too. I see problems that other people wouldn't see as problems.
Speaker 1:But yeah, there's some issues there, so I'm going to start with the things that I don't understand. So, once again, we're talking about a culture in a community that I'm not familiar with and that I'm not a part of. So my question is like when he's at the party, he's smoking marijuana right At the table, that they're passing it around.
Speaker 2:Oh, like with her friend at the beginning, yeah, like the night that they first meet and remember.
Speaker 1:she looks at the other guy because she thinks the other guy is the rabbi.
Speaker 1:When she turns back, he has a joint in his hand. As a matter of fact, he passes the joint to Joanne, which is Kristen Bell's character, and I'm pretty sure that Kristen Bell's character does not even partake of the joint. At least they didn't show it, but he definitely. And the first time I I they didn't show it, but he definitely. And the first time I watched it I thought it was a cigarette. Yeah, I thought it was a cigarette but when I watched it again.
Speaker 1:I'm like why would they be passing a cigarette around a table? I don't. I'm pretty sure it was a joint, okay then I. I missed that, and then yeah, you don't pass cigarettes.
Speaker 2:That's weird.
Speaker 1:So that kind of threw me off. And so I'm just like, and I should, maybe I could have looked this up. But I'm just like what are the rules for rabbis?
Speaker 2:They don't have a different set of you know, like they don't have a different set of rules than other people. In theory, he says they're just regular people. No, because, like when she asked him, can he have sex? And he's like we're just regular people. You know what I mean. So maybe the rules aren't that different for them. I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 2:But he also made a comment that said yeah, I know that I play up the tour bad boy image, but I'm all in on this. So again, him playing with that like you know I'm I'm bending the rules or whatever but as a way to be more likable to other people or be more interesting to other people, does fit his character to me, because he says, like you know when, when he says that, um, when he calls her out about being vulnerable, he's a, he basically alludes to him being also vulnerable and also insecure and lacking attention, but not really wanting to admit to how much he likes attention. So then, like this, being this little yeah, well, you know, I'm Jewish, I'm a rabbi, but I'm also a little bit of a bad boy kind of thing as a way to get women's attention makes perfect sense to me.
Speaker 1:And like how he drops notes to make it seem like he's basically always been like a popular guy, like even when he talks about how much sex he used to have in high school, and I'm just like and then the fact that he brings her to the camp because he and he wants to, he wants her.
Speaker 2:He already knows that they call him hot rabbi. He already knows that the kids, that the teenagers, call him hot rabbi and he wants her to overhear it. But then when she finally does and she brings up, he's like oh, they told you. Oh, oh, my god, I'm so embarrassed. And, yeah, you do it. You wanted her to know that they call you hot rabbi yeah, but I don't, so I don't.
Speaker 1:Like I said, I don't know what the rules are, I don't know either, but like, like this, the sex, especially like sex with someone you have not known that long and before marriage.
Speaker 2:Is that a?
Speaker 1:Right, I know that there are more orthodox sex of Judaism where I know that's a no-no, but he's obviously more modern and that's why, once again, where I'm saying I don't know, I can't judge him for what he's doing because I don't know enough to know what the rules are. But it was shocking. When I'm watching it I'm like, yeah, when, when he said he was the rabbi, I feel like I had the same face that kristen bell had, like that joanne had, because I'm like, wait a minute, he's doing drugs, how are you the rabbi? So I'm like I don't understand what the I don't understand what the rules are. It seems like the only like he's doing a lot of things that I would not necessarily associate with the religious leader, but it seems the only thing that anybody has a problem with is the fact that this woman he has a relationship with is not Jewish. That's true. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:No one says anything else about what I feel like are highly suspect things that he's doing, including when he was previously in a relationship with Rebecca and they were living together. They lived together. I thought that they were living together. I don't think I realized that. I felt like the way that it was phrased, it seemed like they were living together. I don't think I realized that I felt like, the way that it was phrased, it seemed like they were living. Because she was like, oh you know, I was looking through something and I found this box and it was locked and they had been together for three years and I don't know, it gave me like I didn't think they were living together.
Speaker 2:Because even if you've been together for three years with somebody, you're still going to have some of their stuff at your house. And that's what my mind went. Maybe they weren't living together.
Speaker 1:But the way that she was. I thought that they were living together during that scene, but maybe I was reading into more than it should. But I'm just like man. What are the? So my first thought were I have no idea what the rules are. What the rules are if you are a rabbi, other than I bet he doesn't eat pork. The only thing I know is serious If I don't know nothing else. I know he's not eating pork. He's smoking marijuana right now, but I bet he does not eat pork.
Speaker 1:And so he's interesting to me because overall, I think, like I I said, I think he's getting like the good guy at it, but I think in a lot of ways he's incredibly selfish because he, from the time that he knew he was attracted to joanne, he also knew and verified with ashley that she was not Jewish.
Speaker 1:And if it wasn't as important to you as you said it was, why would you even pursue that relationship? And then, in the course of the relationship, keep bringing it up and keep you know what I'm saying Like using it and wielding it. I don't know. Saying wielding it as a weapon sounds stronger than I think that I mean, but you keep making it a wedge. It keeps ending up being a wedge between you and Joanne, and you knew from the beginning that it was going to be an issue. So I feel like before he ever dated Joanne, he should have made peace with it and said listen, I know that she's not Jewish, that cannot be an issue if I'm going to pursue it with her. I think that's what would have been fair.
Speaker 2:That might have been what was fair, but then that puts him having to choose his career. He also knew he's not getting head rabbi if he's married to a Gentile. Why?
Speaker 1:are you with her then? Because, once again, joanne, she found out he was a rabbi doesn't really understand what that is, because not only is she not Jewish, she's not religious at all. So she honestly has a very you know I want to say probably like a very caricature. Oh, I'm not saying that word right Caricature, thank you.
Speaker 1:Idea of what that means. You know what I'm not saying. That word right Caricature, thank you. Idea of what that means. You know what I'm saying. She doesn't really know what that means. She doesn't know what the levels are, what the systems are. She doesn't know what his aspirations are because he waits. He knows for a long time that he wants to. By the time he met Joanne he already knew he wanted to become a head rabbi.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's been working in that.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean Working towards that for a long time, yeah, and then, as it became more and more real, he was not sharing it with her. You know he takes her to that camp, but he tries to hide her. Why did you take her? I don't know. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:As much as I like him, he does stuff that pisses me off on a deep level. So here's the thing he did get the nice guy edit. But my issue is the nice guy trope is the what was problematic? You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:So like he absolutely got the nice guy edit. But like the problem with the whole nice guy is like I think they like nice and passive are conflated, like so he just he kind of allows things to happen to him. You know, he sees the problems but he's not actively trying to deal with the problems you know, or or what have you. He's allowing himself to be told what to do, quite a bit, um, by either his parents or what have you, or society or whatever, but he's not actively making any decisions. He's kind of like passively kind of trying to guide her toward Judaism.
Speaker 1:Do you know what? The most perfect example of what you just said about him, his relationship with Rebecca, which is another thing that makes me extremely angry, because in this show Rebecca is painted as like this, like kind of crazy girl. Now I will admit that scene where we find out that she broke into his locked box, found an engagement ring and then waited and, because he didn't propose, after several months, just started wearing it and told his mom and everything. That is crazy, I will admit. I will admit that that is crazy, but I, when I look at that situation, I go maybe an unreliable narrator is involved. I'm always every way. Maybe that was sensationalized a little bit, but what I do know for sure because noah said this out of his mouth is that he was in a relationship with her for three years and he really did not love her the way that he knew he needed to, and that he just let that relationship go.
Speaker 1:he wasted her time for three years he bought a ring, right, why would you even buy a ring? And right, why would you even buy a ring and leave it? And yes, she shouldn't have even known about it. But once she found it, like and confronted him with it and like now, like his back goes up against the wall, that's when you decide to break up with her, because you know, like, if I don't break up with her, I have to like marry her, and I don't want to marry her. You knew before then you did not want to marry that girl. When you bought that ring and did not use it, you knew you did not want to marry her Because, guess what? You guys could have had a long engagement if you really wanted to be engaged with her.
Speaker 1:The fact that he wasted her time and everyone taught. When other people talk about Rebecca, they speak so highly of her, which is why I go back to the unreliable narrator feelings that I have when it comes to like Rebecca Everybody talks about. Rebecca is beautiful, rebecca is intelligent, rebecca is so sweet and nice. Oh, she won't have any problems finding somebody else because she's so amazing, like everybody talks about how wonderful she is, and the fact that Noah spent three years wasting her time when she could have found someone to really appreciate her for who she was. I get angry.
Speaker 2:No, no, no. He absolutely wasted her time. Rebecca looks good on paper and she fits perfectly into the world and the life that he has crafted him for himself, but he did not actually really want her, he did not actually really love her in the way that he needed to love her and she didn't give him the feelings that he was expected to feel and, from whatever point, he recognized that he should have ended that relationship instead of wasting her time I agree.
Speaker 1:Not only did he leave her and he was able to move on because he knew he did not care for her, but she really loved him and really thought that they had a future together. And now, immediately you're dating someone else, bringing them to all of the places where I congregate because we're in community together. So you're bringing this girl, is showing up at our mosque, she's around the family. I said mosque, I'm sorry, synagogue, it was a holy house of worship. She's at the synagogue, she's around the family. Maybe this is just me, but it felt like he was throwing like joanne in her face a little bit because, like this, woman is still heartbroken and devastated. She thought she was getting married once again. Yes, I will recognize the fact that she proposed to herself, as crazy, you know.
Speaker 1:But his mom about it, that's yeah all of that was insane, but let's pretend as if that did not happen. We're gonna just pluck that up and put that to the side. She was in love with someone, had a three-year relationship and he was giving her every indication that they would have a future together. And then he broke up with her and all of a sudden he's got this girl that he's showing up with everywhere. You know what I mean. She's at the camp. You know what I mean. She's at the synagogue.
Speaker 2:She's at the family house and and I think, I think I don't think it's intentional, I think it's just him being insensitive, but absolutely that's how it would be perceived on the other end like you're just throwing this girl in my face and and for all intents and purposes, she didn't really do anything wrong. You know, rebecca didn't really do anything wrong. She just wasn't the right girl for you and you could not admit that to yourself, right?
Speaker 1:But you played with this girl for three years. And now I feel this is what this is what irritates me. If Joanne would say yes, yes, he would propose to her tomorrow. You know what I'm saying. But you, which, like, lets me know that you knew you did not want rebecca and you played with her for three years. You are not a good person like. You're not a. You're not the worst person, no, but like. I feel like he got too. That's why I said I feel like he got a good guy at it, because with esther, who has the foulest mouth, I feel like should have been going toe to toe with Noah for how he treated Rebecca. When she talks about Rebecca, she only talks about oh, rebecca's my best friend, you know you guys should be together, making it seem like they should only really be together because she's Jewish. You know what I mean? Like I don't feel like people really really call Noah to the carpet for how he treated Rebecca.
Speaker 2:But I would say one of the few people who took it to him was Esther, though she did but she didn't have Not too much of my girl.
Speaker 1:I know it's not that she didn't say anything, but I feel like she could have had a better argument and shown him where he was a bad person. Is shown him where he was a bad person. Is that her job? That's your best friend.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's your job. No, no, no. Is that your job? To show him where he's a bad person? That's your brother's job. That's your. You know what I mean. Your father's job, you know? I feel like she did stand up for her best friend.
Speaker 1:She did, she can't make him a better person. She can't and I she did. She can't make him a better person.
Speaker 2:She can't and I, because here's the thing I don't want noah and and rebecca together because, no, no, it's not good enough. Yeah absolutely rebecca deserves better.
Speaker 1:She does absolutely. But I think I just want someone in show to say to noah at this point I don't care who is, I feel like I don't think that's strong enough to say it. I don't care who says it. Someone needs to say you played with that girl's feelings for three years and then, when you guys broke up, you tried to make it seem like she was crazy. And that should have been his daddy. His dad is so excited that he's dating a blonde girl.
Speaker 2:I don't think his dad is particularly excited about it. He just don't care. I don't think his daddy cares. His dad is kind particularly excited about it. He just don't care. I don't think his daddy cares his dad is kind of passive too. His family are very passive I don't know.
Speaker 1:I just felt like his dad was like kind of like excited about it. Maybe I need to look at it.
Speaker 2:I get, he got, I got like he was like, I gotta live with it. You look, you gotta live with whoever, whichever one of them you take home, I don't know. I have to live with your mama, and that's what I'm concerned about, right.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I as much as I think that Noah is a good person, I do think I don't think he's a horrible person. No, he's not. But I really feel like no one is holding him accountable for how he treated Rebecca. And those issues come up if you look at how he treats Joanne in the sense that he makes his career more important than hers. He plays around with her. You know a lot, that's true. You know what I'm saying. It bleeds through. Joanne is just so in love that she's not really seeing those issues as issues. That's true.
Speaker 2:No, completely. I think part of the problem was that is, that she sees him as a better person than she sees herself.
Speaker 1:Yes, oh, you are right about that. So, okay, I'm sorry. Like you know me, um, I'm a chris, I'm a kristen bell fan, so when she was in the good place, you know how she used to like refer to herself as an arizona. Yes, like, there's a little bit of that. Not as bad, but there's a little bit of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:She knows that she's great, but she has no one on a pedestal, maybe because he is a rabbi and there's. I don't think so. I think it is.
Speaker 2:She's like he's this holy man, and I think part of it is that he's a rabbi and there's like no man. I don't think so. I think it is. She's like he's this holy man and I think part of it is is that he's a rabbi. She puts him a bit of on a pedestal and I do think that she talks um like she. It's like there's a difference between there's growth that needs to happen with her. You know there's there's issues that she needs to overcome, that she needs to work through, but she's not a bad person and she's really struggling with whether or not she's a good or bad person and she sees him as a good person.
Speaker 2:And to like some I think to your point earlier about, like you know, there's there's issues with him, there's things that he needs to work through that he never works through. You know what I mean the fact that you are yeah, you're, you're super passive in this relationship with Rebecca and you just allow it to happen, even though I think you were well aware a long time prior that this wasn't a good fit for you or for whatever reason, even though or rather, she seems like a good fit in every way, but you're just not feeling it right, you know. So you should have stepped up and said okay, even though everybody's gonna be mad at me oh, that's the part of it. He does not like people be mad at me. Oh, that's the part of it. He does not like people being mad at him or thinking badly about him.
Speaker 1:No, he doesn't.
Speaker 2:He doesn't and that's what he can't confront that. He knows that there's going to be backlash from the community and there was backlash from the community. Yeah, it didn't go in depth enough as to what the issue is, but like he doesn't want the backlash and that's why he doesn't break up with her until he's kind of forced to. Um, he needs to stand up to his parents a bit, you know, he needs to set some boundaries that he does not set um, right, and I agree, because one thing I feel like joanne has healthy boundaries with her parents.
Speaker 1:She does, you know she, she really does. Like she. You can tell that her and her sister have a good relationship with their mom. Has healthy boundaries with her parents she does, she really does. You can tell that her and her sister have a good relationship with their mom. But their mom is prone to shenanigans and they keep her just close enough. They don't let her pull them in too deeply into their shenanigans, but they don't mistreat her. I feel like they're very compassionate and understand where their mom is emotionally.
Speaker 2:I would know a little bit more compassionate with her.
Speaker 1:Honestly, I don't know, because the mom and she needs someone to keep her anchored, because the mom is she, she's out there. I like, I think, as someone who tough has to tough love her mother. You know what I mean. It's like you want to be syrupy and sweet but you can't, because they need to be parented, even though they are the parent and so, like they're, they're gentle parenting. I feel like their mom because they know she's like not in a great place emotionally and she, she acts out. She's always do. She said oh, she's doing ayahuasca with her Lyft driver.
Speaker 2:The mom is full of shenanigans she is, but she also like you could just see, like in that scene with her and Noah, and you could, I just feel like you could see the hurt on her face, because at that I don't think I realized how long her and the dad were together. So this person has been your partner. You, you are in love with this person, um, for 30. You've given them, I guess, 30 years of your life or what have you, but a lot, a large chunk of your life to realize one that they are not and possibly were never in love with you and then, and then to lose them, like, but still have to interact with them, like I just I feel like I saw the hurt on her face and so I think, wow, yes, sometimes you have to put her shenanigans in check.
Speaker 2:Uh, because if they shenan once, they're gonna shenan again, but, um, but at the same time, you could still there's times where she needs caring and she needs, um, someone just to to be there with her and and help and and she needs and whether you lead her to an actual therapist instead of all these weird things that she keep going to, or you could just I don't think it's good for you to have to listen to the issues between your parents, even if you're an adult. Like the details of it. But I just like dang, I just want somebody to sit there and hold her, that's it, and just let this woman cry and get this out. You know she's.
Speaker 1:Rebecca. She's literally Rebecca. She's older. You know what I mean. But she's what if they would have gotten married? That's what Rebecca would have turned into.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean yeah, so I just think there's room for a little bit more compassion for their mom. But I know it's hard with your parents. It's hard to see it, see them as fully human, um it in as your parents age that role, reversal girl.
Speaker 1:It's also hard to navigate. It's hard to navigate, so they, but they probably can give her more compassion. I probably have compassion on them because I know how that feels, you know. I mean, raising Boomers is not for the weak, it's not, it is, it is, it's not, it's not. But overall, I know that I'm very, very critical of Noah and I think that I'm so critical of Noah because I feel like the show is not critical of Noah. But I like him.
Speaker 1:I'm so critical of Noah because I feel like the show is not critical of Noah but I like him. I like watching their relationship develop. But here's my last criticism. Even though the ending chef's kiss, I love the way the season ended with him running to her and, you know, basically saying I choose you in season two. There's gotta be some regret there because you can't have spent your life with this dream and work towards this thing. And you have achieved it, you've gotten it and now you're going to give it up for someone that you literally just met.
Speaker 2:That's what I feel differently about the ending. That's why it's kind of anticlimactic for me, cause I feel like it's like yeah, no, and I don't necessarily think the answer is him, and I know he's not really going to, but I don't think the answer is really him leaving his either potentially, because they don't say what that's going to look like. I don't think the answer is him leaving potentially his, either his religion or his, maybe not the religion, but his career path within that religion. I don't think that that's the answer. In order to choose her.
Speaker 1:So I was like kind of like huh, I like the ending because I'm like, oh yeah, let's end on a sweet, romantic note, because if there's a season two, we're about to go through it Things are going to get rough and choppy. So I liked the ending because I'm like, yes, give me something sweet, because if next season goes the way it should, things should be getting really really bitter and really really choppy. Like if it would have ended on a low note, I think that would have taken like some of the air out of season.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't think that it should have ended on a low note. I agree it should have ended on a low note. I agree it should have ended on a high note, because you gotta end on the opposite of where you started. But I just was like man, this man ain't leaving.
Speaker 1:I agree. I know that that is a snap decision, that is an emotional snap decision that's not gonna last it was like I just it gave me all of the feels.
Speaker 1:I really loved it and immediately when I'm like, oh, I know season two is gonna be crazy because he, if he is literally a human being, he will start to regret that decision and he's not going to know how to tell her. She's going to feel guilt about him giving you know, giving up his career. It's going to be so, so much conflict. There's a lot of conflict that can be mined so I was excited.
Speaker 2:I thought it was a great set up. A lot of options to go in the second season. Yes, okay, I, yeah, I can take that, I can deal with that.
Speaker 1:I was like, whatever, dude, don't nobody believe you for real right if you are, like you know, I think like we're, we gotta like a little strong cynicism and also we are tv watchers and we're we're watching it from a different perspective than the average person. So, yeah, you and I both immediately clock like this decision was irrational and it's not going to last right and I'm like, and we know what decision is going to happen.
Speaker 2:I kind of hate that. Some like like watching some other critiques have ruined it for me about because of what happened in real life, and I'm like, well, I knew that she was what decision she is eventually going to make, but I still, I just want to see the journey. I think the last thing, what um about her? And because, okay, we know it's gone, because in real life, the um, aaron foster, converts to judaism and marries um her, uh, her husband timon, and so that's so. That's where the show is going. Eventually, she's going to convert. I really hope, though, we see the process as her, not just about Noah. I just don't want her conversion to be completely about Noah. I want it to be about her kind of falling in love with and getting to know and seeing her growth and understanding of Judaism, and it being almost like a love like you know what I mean like we get a love story with, with her in Judaism and here's the funny thing it start.
Speaker 1:I felt like they were dropping those seeds and then all of a sudden, like it just like rammed into oh no, she's got to convert. We got to have a decision now, because I'm like, wait a minute, like I'm watching her, like you, you said, fall in love with Judaism, discover these beautiful things and see the importance and connection outside. Of.
Speaker 2:Noah, it just cannot just be about for him, it just can't for me, it can't. And it did because a few things that she learned about Judaism in this process you could see her eyes light up and you could see her like, because she's, like I, just, you know, never connected with any of them and I was like, oh, there's such a potential there for her to really connect with this and to be a true a convert in the truest sense. You know, not just like so y'all can't, y'all leave us alone about this marriage.
Speaker 1:I agree because, like I said, I was getting excited as I started seeing those things and seeing her have this moment. I'm like, oh, this could be very beautiful. And then they really started shifting away and making it like a Noah centered and that made me feel very.
Speaker 2:But that's also an opportunity for growth. You know what I mean, like somebody even calling her out about that and her thinking about a different way. That could be another plot point. You know what I mean? Because I think that she's searching for something. She's searching for something like she wants to feel, like she wants to be a good person. She doesn't know what that looks like for her and still being true to herself, right. So there's an opportunity there even for her to like, call her out about how much she's conceited to all which I think her sister repeatedly does, which I love, and so there's an opportunity there for it to be a part of the plot, and then her really switch like OK, no, I got to get to know this for myself. I've got to figure out do I like this outside of him? So I don't know. There's a lot of. I think. There's a lot of opportunities, a lot of directions that they could go, that I'm excited about the way that Esther is your favorite character, and I do like Esther.
Speaker 1:I know I've said some things, but honestly I love her. I think Morgan is my favorite character. I can see that I do. I love Morgan, I do. I think the next thing that we should talk about in our next episode is let's talk about some of those background characters. Let's dig a little deeper into Esther, Morgan, Sasha. I think that would make for a great conversation.
Speaker 2:All right, I'm ready.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, we'll see you next time, guys. Thanks so much for tuning in. Thank you Bye.