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F* Everybody

• Niq & Jess • Episode 3

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In this podcast episode, we delve into the intriguing world of side characters in "Kevin Can F**k Himself," a show that cleverly subverts sitcom tropes by blending dark comedy with drama. While the main focus often lies on Allison's journey, the side characters bring depth and complexity to the narrative, offering critical insights and unexpected twists.

1. **Patty O'Connor**: As Allison's confidante and unlikely ally, Patty plays a pivotal role in challenging the sitcom norms. Her transition from being Kevin's neighbor to Allison's partner-in-crime highlights her growth and adds layers to her personality. We'll explore how her pragmatism and wit contrast with the chaos around her, making her an indispensable part of Allison's rebellion.

2. **Neil O'Connor**: Known for his boisterous personality and loyalty to Kevin, Neil initially seems like just another comedic relief. However, his character gradually unravels, revealing deeper motivations and vulnerabilities. We'll discuss how Neil's interactions with Allison and Patty provide a mirror to the toxic masculinity prevalent in Kevin's world, and how his character evolves over time.

3. **Sam Park**: As Allison's former flame and a potential catalyst for her desire to escape her mundane life, Sam's presence introduces a romantic subplot that complicates Allison's plans. We'll examine how his character adds emotional depth to the story, serving as a reminder of what Allison desires versus what she currently endures.

4. **Detective Tammy Ridgeway**: Entering as a love interest for Patty, Detective Tammy brings an element of suspense and unpredictability to the plot. Her investigative nature and professional demeanor contrast sharply with the sitcom chaos, creating tension and intrigue. We'll explore how Tammy's character influences the dynamics between Patty and Allison, and what her presence signifies for the overarching narrative.

Through this exploration, we aim to highlight how these side characters enrich the story line, providing not only comic relief but also serving as crucial elements that drive the plot forward and challenge the central themes of "Kevin Can F**k Himself." Join us as we unpack their roles, motivations, and the impact they have on the show's unique blend of genres.

Contact Niq & Jess

Niq:

Hi, welcome back to next episode with your host. I'm Nick and I'm Jess, and so we're going to continue. This is actually going to be our last episode talking about Kevin can F himself. The last episode we started talking about the extra characters in the show and their relationship with Allison. So we're going to continue that conversation and we're going to discuss Sam. So Sam, to me, is the classic good guy that you see on TV shows, and what this show does, I feel like really good, is they actually show what that looks like, actually show what that looks like, that that good guy character is actually a terrible person because he is, I feel like, just as destructive as Kevin is. He's just not that destructive when it comes to Allison, but he destroys other people in the same way that Kevin does. Do you agree with that?

Jess:

Yeah, I do agree with that. I don't think he's a good person either. I do think, though and we'll get into that first why he's a bad person, but I do think he has a little bit of growth though.

Niq:

I don't know, we'll see. I think we can debate about that point. And maybe I just really dislike this character. I'm glad he's in the show. Oh, I don't like him either. I'm glad he's in the show. He was great for the story. He was great for showing the other side of the good guy. But, oh my gosh, as a person, I hate that guy. I hate that guy. So Allison like we said previously, allison and Sam were friends in high school. They worked together. They had like a romantic relationship while he was in a relationship with someone else. And so they see each other again many, many years later. Like this was like 17. So they're 35. And many, many years later, this was like 17, so they're 35. She just walks into the diner and she didn't know that he owned the diner because he had moved away with his wife, who was the same girl that he used to cheat with Alison on. They had moved away. Did they move to New York? Oh, maybe, yeah, I think they moved to New York. No, syracuse, new York.

Jess:

Well, still New York. Oh, maybe, yeah, I think they moved to New York. No, syracuse, new York, well, still New York. But yeah, yeah.

Niq:

Syracuse, new York. So they had moved to New York and then they moved back home to Worcester and he owned a diner. And so when I first see them kind of reunite, I'm kind of happy for Allison Because I'm like, oh, like somebody from like your past, somebody that you don't know through Kevin. So I'm like, oh, you found like a safe space, like that's nice. And like one of the first things we learn about Sam is that he is a recovering alcoholic. He's been sober for like eight years. And he asked Allison he's like so are you like a recovering alcoholic or do you go to AA? And she's like no, what are you talking about? And I thought that was interesting Because Allison is to on the show.

Niq:

It's not really a big drinker that we see. No, you don't see her drinking a lot. So I wonder and he knew her when she was 17. So once again, during the same time period when the mom was saying, hey, you're talking about going to college, I don't even see that for you it's during the same time period he knew her and he thought that she would be an alcoholic. And so I just think that there's some deeper layers to her that can be explored. She's been a mess for a long time, I think. So they meet up and she kind of ropes him into her hijinks and she has him doing all sorts of things. What are some of the things that she has him doing for her?

Jess:

Well, let's see, after she just up and quits her job, she gets him to give her a job at the diner.

Niq:

So previously she was working at the liquor store with her aunt Diane, and she just quits one day at the liquor store with her aunt Diane and she just quits one day.

Jess:

So she got him to give her job. What are some other things? I feel like it was a lot, but now I'm trying to think of it. Well, basically, she kind of like to meet her own needs. They ended up having an affair and the affair is kind of on Allison's terms, so when she wants that connection with him, she has it. When she doesn't, it doesn't really matter what he wants. And I think he tries to draw her into a little bit more of an emotional kind of affair than just sex and she's like nope, that's not what I want, that's not what I'm here for. Or we can be emotional on my side. I don't want to hear about your problems, right? But he's married. Yes, they're both married.

Niq:

The entire time. They're both married, right the entire time.

Jess:

What are some other?

Niq:

things that I know that she asked him for help. She implies when she needs money, money, yeah, help. She implies when she needs money, money, yeah, um. But yeah, she, she very much like kind of treats him like a doormat and like through his relationship with her, like he ends up like losing his marriage, he almost loses his business, like he's in a worse place. I personally feel like I think he sees himself that he's in a better place because he was unhappy in his marriage. I think he was unhappy, but I feel like him and his wife could have worked things out If they were both honest.

Niq:

I feel like if they were both on it. I feel like they were both, if they were both honest with each other like.

Jess:

I don't think that they are right for each other. I don't think that they're a good fit, and I understand why her parents don't like him.

Niq:

I do too no, no, no, I do too, because you know, oh, he's annoying.

Jess:

I don't think he, I don't think that they could have worked things out, because I don't think he ever really liked her. I think she was convenient. You know what I mean. Like the whole time that they were together in high school. He's really chasing Allison and is upset that he can't really have Allison. But he settles for this woman with the rich parents you know what I mean With the money that can get him the things that he wants. You know what I mean. But he never talks about her favorably. There's no chemistry between them and I'm like why does she want him? And then, if he's like, and one time I think he's in AA and he's describing how bad things got, because I thought it was alcohol, but did he describe heroin?

Niq:

No, it was alcohol, he said one time he got so drunk he stole someone's heroin, but he was drinking.

Jess:

Okay, but here's my point. So he's been sober for eight years. They've been together also since high school. What did she go through with him also since high school? What did she go through with him from 17 to when he got sober eight years ago? If you were drinking and you know if you were that that much you know an alcoholic at that point that you are now like experimented or stole somebody's heroin, got into it with someone over some heroin.

Jess:

You know what I mean. That is my point. So what has she been through and what have her parents seen her go through with him and then still invested in his business and gave him money to start that business. Yeah, they don't like him. They don't have any reason to like him. They see him as the person who ruined their daughter's life. And I agree.

Niq:

I understand why the parents don't like him, because I wonder, before this business, what was he doing for work? I don't think that he's ever really been a provider, or even an equal provider in the house. I think that they've been kind of living off of her parents all of this time and the girl has issues with her parents, which is understandable. But his issues with her parents, I feel like, are because they try to hold him accountable, like, hey, you're an adult, you're a man, you need to stand up. And he's like oh well, your mom works the business profits into the conversation. Well, they gave you money to start a business, they are your investors, they have that right. You know what I mean? And then he's like oh, your dad's always trying to be a nice guy. Once again, these people are doing you a favor and you're looking down on these people, letting you live in their house, your house, that diner, I can tell, is not making a lot of money.

Niq:

yet your wife is renovating the kitchen. Do you know how much it costs to renovate a kitchen? You know her parents are footing that bill too.

Jess:

Well she might work. She at least dresses like she has a job. I don't know. I do think that her parents give her a lot of money. I think she probably works and also takes on way too much. But I don't think that's what I'm saying. I don't think that their relationship is repairable because I think it's usury in nature. I don't think he likes that girl. I don't think he ever really liked her. She was there and she can meet his needs.

Niq:

I don't, I, I wonder like I don't know. May I I know? Once allison entered the picture, there was there.

Jess:

That relationship was over from the first time but I wonder if, what did you see as to why they would want to? You said what like, but even before they did like, what did you see that? That what? You would even say that that's a relationship that needs to be fixed. You know what I mean? They don't have any chemistry. They argue a lot. Neither one of them seem like they're happy.

Niq:

When I saw them at the AA meeting, when she came to surprise him at his eight year and did not know that Allison was there, she was excited to see him.

Jess:

She was happy and he wasn was excited to see him. She was happy and he wasn't excited to see her.

Niq:

Because Alison was there. I wonder, if Alison was not there, if he would have been excited to see her, Because it seems like things were going good before Alison. And here's the thing. I'm not saying that Alison ruined their marriage. I'm not trying to say that at all. You cannot wreck a home that you were invited to. So I'm not saying that Alison ruined their marriage. But I think once he had Alison as an option, he was checked out of that relationship.

Jess:

I don't think he ever checked in. I don't think there was any hope for that relationship and, honestly, the best thing for her is to get out, because I don't think that ever checked in. I don't think there was any hope for that relationship and, honestly, the best thing for her is to get out, because I don't think that that man really loves her.

Niq:

I agree that they should not. Like I said, from the first time he met Allison, that relationship was over, and so I'm glad that the truth came out and they were able to break up. But Sam got on my nerves. Sam got on my nerves too, Bending over backwards for Allison. But I feel like he was doing that because he was trying to strong arm her into a relationship, because with nice guys they are nice and they are so helpful. But it's usually a tactic to get you to do what they want. It's not altruistic at all.

Jess:

Again, you're trying to strong arm Allison into a relationship because that's who you always wanted to be with. That's who you always wanted to be with since you were 17. Your wife was always second, at least in your mind, to Allison, and that's why I don't think that their relationship could have been repaired.

Niq:

But Allison was single when they were 17. They could have just been together.

Jess:

I don't think she wanted anything more than just to feel like she beat the other girl. You know what I mean. Yes, they could have been together, but they weren't together. He didn't leave that girl for her. Well, do you think that?

Niq:

he wanted to leave Because it wasn't an option. You don't think Allison would ever want it.

Jess:

I don't think I don't know why she didn't want it when she was 17,. But I don't think she wanted a relationship. She wanted to fool around, Because if she had made it clear to that boy at 17 that she was an option, he would have took it. Then I don't feel like he ever really liked this girl for real. I think she's like a plan B with money.

Niq:

Well, you know how guys have the woman that they feel like they're supposed to have. That looks good to society, but that's not necessarily who they really love or vibe with. Maybe it's one of those situations where she looked good on paper.

Jess:

That's what I'm saying. She looked good on paper because she met all of his needs. You know what I mean. She's pretty, the girl is, his wife is beautiful, she's got her stuff together at least it appears to and her parents have money. So that gives him a lot of access to a lot of things, so that for 17 years you could just kind of do whatever you wanted to do and then eight years ago you decided you got sober and then you decided you want to run a cafe. You could do all those things because of what she brings access to, but I don't think he likes her as a person and I don't think that he ever did.

Niq:

I wonder what she sees in him. Do you think he manipulated her the way he manipulated Allison, in the sense that he does stuff like you know, like love bombs her when he, when he needs like to get something from her.

Jess:

I don't think it's the same way, but he says that, so one of the things that like okay, so after Kevin fixes the situation with the parents and he gets to keep the restaurant, him and Allison are talking and he's talking about when Kevin was having the marriage interventions with him and tell him all the stuff that he should do and basically telling him like, oh, you should like, you know, play your star, like play the sympathy card.

Jess:

tell you an A, he's like I am an A. He's like, yeah, play that up. Act like all, like you're all sorry, what have you. And then when he goes back and he's talking to Allison about it, after Kevin fixes the thing with the restaurant, he says you know, kevin said a lot, told me to do a lot of, gave me a lot of horrible marriage advice. But I realize I do those things anyway. That's why I say he has some growth, because he at least recognizes that he does manipulate her. But he plays the sympathy card with his wife I don't know her name. He plays the sympathy card with his wife and controls her to do stuff for him, like get her parents to pay for things, like get them the fling you know what I mean. And with Allison he wants to be the hero. He gets to be the hero.

Niq:

I don't know. And so I was honestly really proud because I thought that they were going to run away together. So I was honestly proud of Alison when she left by herself and did not take him with her. Because, for whatever reason, alison loves the way Sam loves her, but does not love Sam. She will bask in the sunshine of his love. She will use him as a henchman and make him complicit in her crimes and her plans, but she does not want to be with him for real. No, she doesn't, no, she doesn't. Is that not the same thing that he does to his wife?

Jess:

Yeah, there are no good people in the store.

Niq:

Allison is his karma.

Jess:

Yeah, that's why I'm like I did not want them to work it out. I wanted them to get divorced from the beginning. I'm like you deserve better than this. He even the way he you could tell, the way he talks about her is negative. He does not have a high opinion of his wife. You can be having problems with your spouse, but you still have a good opinion of him. He doesn't. He doesn't talk about it, he talks about her like she's. And then when you look at the situation, you're like hold on, how dare you? This woman is not this terrible, right? She's not this terrible, horrible shrew or whatever. Not that he said that. I can't remember exactly what he said, but whatever, I just remember it was like a negative tone on how he describes his wife. And then when you see the situation, you're like, sir, you're lucky to be there.

Niq:

Right, I feel like he looks at his wife and she's dry and she's not fun and Allison's fun and exciting. Allison is committing crimes on a daily basis you know what I'm saying. But he's enamored and so infatuated with Allison. So let me ask you do you feel like Allison had a growth arc during this show?

Jess:

I'm thinking if, if she did, it was minimal, if she did, it was minimal, um, I it's hard for me. I don't think so. Not really. She's still to the end. I don't see her do it. Well, the only okay, the growth, is directly standing up to Kevin at the end Telling him she wants the divorce. That is the growth, like coming back to fix the situation and leave that marriage the right way to leave the marriage, versus all this extra stuff that she really honestly didn't have to do. She could have disappeared without stealing somebody's identity. You know what I mean? Because at the end of the day we say the whole time you don't have to kill him, you could have just left. She ends up basically just leaving, but she steals somebody's identity, pretends to be a different person. She really could have just moved, you know.

Niq:

Yeah, she just could have left.

Niq:

I agree that she could have just left. Once again, Allison makes these crazy, overly complicated plans Plans that don't make no sense, that are not necessary instead of just being an adult. You know what I'm saying? Once again, I never want to take away from her being a victim. She is absolutely a victim, she absolutely is. But sometimes the way she conducts herself, she acts like she's still 17. The way she thinks about situations, the way she problem solves, it is very much like a teenager and not like an adult. That's true. That is true. Does that come from? Once again, you always have to look back, okay. Does that come from being isolated and unable to grow and mature? Because you've been in this relationship for so long? You got in this relationship when you were 20. You guys moved in within two months. They were living together. So she's been under kevin's thumb for a long time. So did that arrest her development?

Niq:

because that's a really good question I don't under like, even when she finally left. Yes, she stole a dead person's identity and then she leaves. They live in Massachusetts, she moves to Maine or in Vermont, she's still in the same New York area.

Jess:

Why. I just knew she was going to California. I was like go to California, Go to where? He can't possibly get to you.

Niq:

Arizona. Why first? Of all would you choose to stay in that gross weather? Ew Right.

Jess:

But to answer your point, yes, because the other thing that I see, like with Allison, that annoyed me the first watch and I kind of like I think I understood it a little bit more as a byproduct of trauma. The second watch was like again, with her overly elaborate plans and how she kind of ruins everything. I'm like some of that is anxiety, so like when she, when she hires the guy, the hitman, to kill him and I forgot, we didn't even talk about that, yeah.

Jess:

And then she goes to the restaurant and the hit man's working at the restaurant and then she freaks out thinking he can't do it here, he can't do it here. And Patty's like, of course he's not going to do it here, and you know he's not going to do it here. You, clearly the man's on probation, he's a drug dealer, he has to have this job to be on probation. Everybody else in the situation who knows what is, just her and Patty, but like, knows he's not going to do it there. But I can see her getting so anxious that that's why she ends up confronting him and creating that weird moment with the three of her and him and Sam. And then she ends up later going to, like, finding him and say you're going to do it my way, you're going to, you know, I'm going to know everything, what have you?

Jess:

And I'm like that is control, and I think that is control related to anxiety, which again could be an offshoot of the abuse that she's experiencing and why she makes the decision. It is irrational, even though, yes, we are talking about somebody who's hired a hitman. But again, you hired him, just let him do his thing. You know what I mean just let him do his thing. You know what I mean, like when the man told you don't control it. The less you know, the better. So now you're trying to control it. And I think you're trying to control it because you feel anxious, and I think there's more situations than just that one. That was the one that sticks out the most, where she gets into a situation that, had she taken her hands off of it, probably would have worked out fine. And I'm like, I do think it's anxiety, which is probably some results of the abuse.

Niq:

Oh so another situation, I think, is when she creates the drug sting by turning in the drug dealer that she was beefing with and inadvertently cause all those issues for Patty, she a lot of times does make things worse because once again, like you said, she has to win and so, like her, she started like this petty beef with, like a petty drug dealer, you know, for no reason, and it escalated to the fact that, like she actually ruined Patty's drug business and got the pharmacist arrested, and you know what I mean.

Jess:

And then an inside note is like kind of what well, not ended patty's relationship because patty wouldn't commit to kurt, but then like she couldn't go back because then kurt started putting two or two together.

Niq:

That hey, there's a lot going on with this woman that I don't know exists yes, like those plans are so overly elaborate, like how they went all the way to Vermont to buy some drugs.

Jess:

It wasn't even that many drugs when they went to Vermont to buy drugs and that guy called her custody. I'm like no, she's custody in every situation, in every situation. That's why you didn't get the pills from the doctor, because you were custody. You know what I mean. Like you were, it was so obvious what you wanted. And that she does too. That drives me crazy. I'm like you don't. You can't hint or be subtle about nothing. It is so obvious that people don't want to give you what you are.

Niq:

Yeah, she's the worst schemer ever, ever. But because she's willing to sacrifice any and everyone around her, things work out in her favor. But things could have just been so easy. You lived all the way in Massachusetts. Girl, move to Seattle, move to Portland. He would not have found you. Throw away your phone, because he will track your phone, get all of your money out in cash and get on a bus. It's not hard. You know what I'm saying and I know it's hard for people to leave those situations. But once she made up her mind that she was going, to leave To go.

Jess:

There was a lot easier way to do it.

Niq:

Why, and also I was so irritated when she left and was miserable Me too. You said this is what you wanted. You wanted to sit in a cafe and drink tea and read a book. If you don't like that book, get a better book. You reading James Joyce girl. If you don't pick up a romance novel, you're not a James Joyce person.

Jess:

Oh see, look at you. You do like the mama because you told her she's not a Joyce. The mom says she's not a ham person. Y'all stop trying to tell that woman her identity.

Niq:

She could not get through the book. She was like five pages in the book and she's like I'm like can she read? Maybe she's not a ham person, maybe her mom's a wife.

Jess:

Yeah, no, I'm like there's no reason why you couldn't have created a happy new life. You created, you did create like a. Really, you even got a job where your boss liked you. I'm like okay, so make a friend, make a friend or two, there's nothing stopping you. And then here's even the name that she was complaining about. I'm like, girl, if you don't go by Trudy and live your life Right.

Niq:

You could have went by Trudy, you could have went by True, you literally going by Gertrude Fronch.

Jess:

And I'm like it's Gertrude Fronch and I wouldn't admit it is, but you could have went.

Niq:

I would have been Trudy Absolutely, but you could have been. I would have been Trudy absolutely, because that would have made it even more difficult for him to find her, for him to find you.

Jess:

Kevin did not care now, okay, this I will say maybe we are like making it seem like it's too easy because, like he didn't look for her when, because she, he thought she died. But if she thought he, if he thought she left idea there, probably there would have been some more chasing her down.

Niq:

But, once again, that's why you go really, really far, because Kevin also has established that he's stupid. You know what I'm saying. And so I think that she could have gotten away, and he ain't got but so much money. Yeah Right, I think if she would have went further away it would have been fine.

Niq:

Don't go to this estate next door. But she was so unhappy with Kevin and she's like, oh, if I can just get away, get from under Kevin, my life will be so great. You leave and your life is so small. You know what I'm saying. That's why I wonder about how much growth she had. I do agree that, but, um, I honestly feel like her confronting kevin is the only actual growth that she she experiences, because everything up into that was her using all of the things that she's seen Kevin do to her on other people yeah, true, manipulating people, using people, scheming, hurting people to benefit herself. It wasn't until she confronted Kevin. But I don't understand what she was homesick for. Because your life was so miserable.

Niq:

Kevin thought she was dead. She could have text Patty, hey, come see me, this is where I am. Kevin wasn't looking for her because he thought she was dead. If you missed Patty like that, you could have just like hey, patty, come see me for the weekend. Kevin wouldn't have thought anything of it. He don't really be checking for Patty like that. You could have just like hey, patty, come see me for the weekend. Kevin wouldn't have thought anything of it. He don't really be checking for Patty like that.

Jess:

He don't. Yeah, you know, one thing we didn't talk about is how the town is a character within itself. It is Worcester, there's it. There's a layer of desperation, of hopelessness that just sits on that town in the way that they describe it in the show. You know, no offense to anybody who actually lives in Worcester, massachusetts, but the show's portrayal of the town is like a character in itself and you feel that desperation and you feel that hopelessness. But there's also like one of those small towns where you know and we lived in one of these type of small towns before where it's like a black hole and it sucks you back in, because even Sam says that he was like something about this town brings you back and, yeah, from the outside, looking in there, it's like there's nothing there. You don't have good relationships there. You have a interesting relationship with your next door neighbor, right, Because I don't think that relationship is healthy for patty but, um, it's not.

Niq:

It's not healthy for either one of them because patty allows allison to manipulate her. You know what I mean. And allison does. No one should be encouraging her to like do the same things that kevin does to her to other people. So that, yeah, no, that that that relationship is is completely unhealthy. But you know what? The town is also an enabler of Kevin's abuse to bring it back, with the town being a character In that town.

Niq:

Kevin is well known and he has a reputation which annoys me because I'm like he's doing so many things. But when people see him they're like, oh, kevin's so fun, kevin's so funny, he's so interesting, he's always doing something. You know, he's well known in the town and he's known in a positive light, even though, like, he's always up to different antics. You know what I mean. But that also inoculates him, you know. You know what I mean. But that also inoculates him, you know, and it makes it easier for him to abuse Allison, because he overall has a pop, he's popular and he has a positive reputation. So when people like look at that situation between him and Allison, they're giving Kevin every benefit of the doubt you know, and they think that she feels the same way they feel about him.

Jess:

Or they think, or, for the ones that that are closer, think that she's complaining and nagging him, like before her and Patty become friends, like they both. They allude to her nagging him, or what have you yeah.

Niq:

So, yeah, I do think that that was interesting, an interesting choice, and I like the choice that they made where they made the setting the town. It's another character and a key part of the story, Because that story looks different, this story looks different in New York City versus Worcester, Massachusetts.

Jess:

Absolutely. The one thing I want to say too, as far as the town being a character, is that I also felt like that was part of why certain relationships got formed, and I think it was again that layer of desperation. This is a small town, this feels like a small town, there's not a lot of people here, so we just got to deal with what we got, Because there's no reason, there's no chemistry between Patty and Kurt. They're together for three years sitting together, and it's like to me it just gave like well, there's nobody else. Like you know, this is all I got, this is my only option. And then, when Tammy comes along, it's like oh, this is a slightly better option and it's the only option I got. And it's the only reason why I could see Tammy pursuing Patty as hard as she did, Because I'm like there's got to be an air of desperation there, because what else is it?

Niq:

Well, I think Tammy has a type and the reason why I say that is because, if you remember, the cops are teasing Patty and they said oh, we thought Tammy was done dating neighborhood girls. When they were taking Allison and Patty during the blackout to their friend's house, they were teasing Patty about her relationship with Tammy and they said something like I thought Tammy said she was done dating neighborhood girls. So I think that Tammy has a type. I don't understand, but what's a neighborhood?

Jess:

girl, because Tammy is also from Worcester, been there her whole life, so how is she not a neighborhood girl? What do they?

Niq:

mean Tammy is not. I don't know if she's from Worcester, but she's not of. Worcester. She's not of Worcester. She's not of Worcester. She does not act like they act.

Jess:

You know what I'm saying.

Niq:

And even when you see her with her people, like at game night, when she's with her sister and their friend, they are a different class of people. So I think the neighborhood yeah, I said it's obvious that Tammy is in a higher class than Patty and Allison too, and you know the way that she moves, the way she conducts herself, the way she speaks, even the way that she thinks she's in a higher class. So when they say she's a neighborhood girl, they mean a lower class girl, you feel like that was a classist comment.

Niq:

Yes, Think about Tammy and her friends. And if Patty would have actually shown up to that game night, she would have stuck out like a sore thumb.

Jess:

I think the best thing Tammy did was leave. I wanted Tammy to leave. I wanted to because I was like, yeah, no, but you absolutely can have a wonderful career as a detective or whatever you're trying to get to in the police force. You have the ability, you have the skill. There's no reason for you to stay in Worcester right.

Niq:

I was happy that Tammy left too, even though, once again, I did not like Tammy, and I'm actually trying to go through the characters in this show and figure out who I did like, and I think my answer is Diane. Yeah, you do speak highly of Diane. I like Diane. I do like Diane. I feel like Diane is a good person and she is someone that I would actually be associated with in real life. No one else, though, I wouldn't say Diane, I wouldn't be friends with Diane, but if we were associates I would be okay with that see outside of the context of Patty.

Jess:

I don't have an issue with Tammy.

Niq:

All of my issues with Tammy are in relationship to how she treats and interacts with Patty which lets me know that I could not be friends with her, because I feel like if you would treat your partner that way, you're probably like overly pushy in friendships too I yeah, I don't like how she doesn't take no for an answer.

Jess:

I'm like sometimes, when that girl was sick, I'm like listen, even though I know she lies. She just don't like how she doesn't take no for an answer. I'm like, sometimes, when that girl was sick, I'm like listen, even though I know she lies. She just don't want you to come in the house. But either way, if someone says I'm sick, no, I don't want to go, you accept that? What is wrong with?

Niq:

you Also, she's dry. Tammy doesn't have enough personality to be our friend, let's be real. She doesn't have enough personality, like she would not last in our friend group. So no, and like allison, definitely not. Sam is a big creeper. And like, kevin and neil need to be in prison. So yeah, I'm sorry, the only acceptable human being is diane okay, okay, yeah. Great show, though, because you want, like you know, interesting characters. Imperfect people, flawed people make for the best TV, yeah.

Jess:

I know we just kind of went in on everybody, but I did enjoy the show, loved it and I do like it. When they don't make the characters perfect. It actually would irritate me if the character, if Alison, had been perfect and everybody around her. That would have drove me crazy. I can't stand shows like that. It's not real.

Jess:

So I do, even though she irritated me some of the most like, well, some of the most like, maybe after kevin, um, I still like that they made her flawed and not like this perfect innocent victim. You know, they really gave her character a lot of depth and, like I said, I do think that they gave they show really, because some of it, some of it, you know, gave they show really, because some of it, some of it, you know, I think it's her and then some of it, I think, are the effects of abuse and I feel like they displayed that well.

Niq:

So yeah, I definitely think if you have watched our commentary and you haven't watched the show, I feel bad for you because it was very disjointed. But if you, if you haven't watched the show, give it a watch. If you have watched the show, I would say, go back and watch it now, like after hearing our breakdowns, and see what other things that you pick up on, because this show is very much like an onion. There's so many layers and there's so many different things that you pick up. Bravo to that team. Give us more. We are starving, absolutely. Feed us. Do something else. I can't wait to see what else you guys can pick up. So I'm really excited that we just completed our first show breakdown. I'm really looking forward to doing more. I'm really excited that you guys are going to get to know us and our perspectives and maybe learn about a new show. Learn about us. So we'll see you next time, guys. See you next time. Thank you.